Engine Dies And Runs In Spurts

[03ultra45385]

I am looking at replacing the fuel line in my 03flht. I know the factory replacement is a few inches shorter than the original. If I get submersible fuel line how flexible is it and how long does it need to be to work in my tank? Most parts stores sell either a 1' or 10' piece. 10' cost more than factory replacement line.

 

[razenman]

Sputtering and stalling(Fuel Injection)

Erratic running, surging and a hissing or bubbling in the tank noticed after the pump cycles.

There's been some issues with engines in the fuel injected models sputtering and dying at half a tank of gas for no apparent reason. One cause for this is a fuel line inside the tank that is rubbing on the inside of the tank and wearing a hole in the line. When the tank gets to about 1/2 full, the motor will sputter and stall. This could be the problem but the fuel level isn't a necessary part of the equation here. The engine needs fuel pressure in the area of 50 LBS to operate right and if the line is causing the fuel pressure to bleed off, you will have sporadic running and stalling as a result.
You can try adding gas to the tank and it will usually run better again indicating this problem but a fuel pressure test is the positive diagnostic procedure for this situation.
The fuel pump will have a different sound to it like a hissing or whistling when pressuring up at start up if this problem exists and you may see fuel spraying around inside the tank when the pump is pressurized.

If you remove the fuel pump fuse to diagnose this condition, the engine should start, then stall with the fuel pressure that is in the line normally. With this pin hole in the hose , the engine will not start after removing the fuse because the fuel pressure has bled off. It's another way of verifying this problem.

You can also hear the problem by opening the gas cap and turning on the key.You'll hear the fuel squirting from the line in a hissing sound when the pump is priming. You will also notice more than average priming before starting.

If you are replacing the convoluted tubing with something other than the replacement from HD, the fuel line is 5/16 ID in case anyone is interested.

"Chopper" posted this for removing the pump from the tank that may be helpful...

The trick is pressing down on the fuel pump, it's like a spring loaded latch, once you get that released it will come right out, the first time is the hardest.
Raise canopy slightly to access top fitting (inlet port) at back of fuel pressure regulator. Using a side cutters, cut hose clamp and remove convoluted tube. Exercise caution
to avoid cutting or damaging tube or dropping pieces of cut clamp into fuel tank
A spring-loaded hinge on the fuel pump bracket facilitates removal of the assembly. For best results, press down on top of fuel pump with end of screwdriver, and after raising canopy slightly, rotate on hinge in a counterclockwise direction. When canopy is at a 45° angle to top of fuel tank, carefully pull assembly from left side lobe of fuel tank.
Remove and discard canopy gasket. Verify that sealing devices from screws are not lodged in canopy holes. Remove and discard devices if present

Below is a pic of the line and what it looks like when it gets worn through.

The manual mentions how to remove the assembly, but it's not very clear, If you reach inside and actually push downward on the pump itself, it will then swivel downward which allows it to be removed fairly easily. It makes sense once you have it removed.
The pump, pickup, and fuel sender assembly all can pivot 90-degrees. With it at 90-degrees, the assembly goes in and out with relative ease.
Check the side of the corrugated fuel line for abrasions. They rub on the tank and can wear through causing poor running as shown above.

Here's some other fuel units from a bagger in the swing away position for removing it and other Harley lines like a deuce.

I can't say enough about the value of this thread. This worked exactly as stated. I had a pin hole about 1/3 up from the quick release fitting to the engine or about 5 inches. I replaced the tubing with 5/16 high pressure reinforced in tank use hose. Anyone doing this use your digital camera as soon as you get the assembly out of the tank to note the orientation of the fuel pump as it can spin in it's bracket as well. This will aid in modifying the length of the new tubing between the fuel pump and fuel filter. Stand on right side of bike and with your right hand follow the bracket to the spring to top of pump and a light push down has the bracket start to swivel. Make sure when reassembling that the bracket is locked back into the bent position so the cover plate will sit back down correctly to torque down the 10 screws (deuce). Do not use the screws to try and draw the cover down. This all works as stated when you follow all the suggestions of this thread!

 

[brushfire]

If the issue is intermittent, and fuel pressure tests seem OK, whenever performed, The issue could also be the fuel pressure regulator. Under certain conditions, particuarly if fuel has been allowed to varnish a bit (sitting for more than a couple months), the fuel pressure regulator can become sticky.

Sticky pressure regulators will not throw codes on open loop engines (no O2 sensors), and may cause confusing codes on closed loop ones. With no codes to guide you, and many possible causes for the same symptoms, isolation can be difficult. The indicative symptom, for a regulator just starting to become sticky, is the brief stutter when starting off from stop, or right when increasing speed from a steady one. As the stickiness worsens the stuttering can become prolonged, even continuing for the rest of a ride session, only to clear up before you start her up next time, coming back in a few miles, etc.

This problem can masquerade as a thermal one, because of the enrichment that occurs when you first start up. When enrichment tapers out, the subtle leaning out from lowered fuel rail pressure tapers in. Also, the stuck regulator can pop back in normal operation, if you shut down for a few minutes, only to restick after a bit of time on the road.

I hope this helps. It was hard learned, over around 18 months of trying to track down the culprit, in my case.:newsmile093: Dealers, indy's, nobody could make it go a away. Let's just say, there is nothing in fuel, air, or spark delivery that I am afraid to work on. I know every related wire, bolt, and connector on my scooter, personally.

Enjoy,
Rich P

This sounds similar to my problem. I bought my 2006 Road King with only 17,200 miles from a truck driver. It was located in the upper Peninsula of MI and sounds like it spent a lot of time in storage.

The engine never dies, it just misses and sputters while driving it. It doesn't do this while idling.

Symptoms:

1. Missing doesn't happen when engine is first started cold and run for a mile or so.

2. Missing doesn't occur when the engine is under load, i.e. climbing a hill.

3. Both times when the missing/sputtering became worse was after I drove 70-80 miles and used 2-3 gallons of gas to top of the tank. The tank was full when the missing and sputtering was really bad.

4. Tonight with the tank full and an led light in the fill cap recess, I turned ignition to on, turned kill switch to on, pump started and ran for 4 seconds. I did this twice and no evidence of bubbles.

I had topped off the tank after I run it down to half after taking delivery of it from the former owner. The former owner said he topped off the tank, which could mean that some of the fuel in it was old.

I put a half can of seafoam in after topping off the tank containing his gas.

It was after topping it off that the missing and sputtering got worse. I drove it and bought a bottle of Lucas deep clean fuel injector cleaner and put that in the tank too.

When the missing and sputtering continued, I drained the tank, which contained the fuel put in by the former owner.

Then I put a half bottle of seafoam in it, a half gallon of fresh 91 octane in it and ran it to town to fill the tank. I did it this way to ensure that the gas running through the injectors was highly concentrated with seafoam before filling the tank. After filling the tank I put a whole can of seafoam in the tank.

The next morning I took it out and ran it about 80 miles. It would miss sporadically. I stopped at a gas station and topped the tank off with 2 gallons of 109 octane racing fuel figuring this would mix with the 91 octane and seafoam and help clean the injectors. I came home and it was still sporadically missing.

I let the bike sit for an hour or so then ran into town to do an errand. This is when it really started to miss and sputter again.

I don't know if there's a reason why the topping off would have anything to do with it. It may have been a coincidence...

It was after the 2nd topping off (and reading the posts here) that I went out and put an LED light in the fill cap recess, tank full, turned the ignition on, then turned the kill switch on and the pump ran for 4 seconds then shut off. I did this twice, and there were no bubbles or any appearance of the fuel stirring at all.

If it is a sticky fuel pressure regulator, wouldn't the seafoam and the high octane fuel dissolve the varnish gumming it up?

This is baffling....

 

[Jennmarr]

The Seafoam might help with a sticky fuel pressure regulator, but high octane gasoline will do nothing for this problem. High octane does not = cleaner, or more powerful. It simple means that it will resist detonation better than lower octane fuel. In other words, less "pinging" or "spark knock".

 

[brushfire]

Re: Diagnostic Code P0261

I ran through the Speedometer Self Diagnostics this morning. As I mentioned in another post, I noticed the check engine light come on briefly yesterday as I pulled into my garage after a ride and the bike was missing and sputtering badly.

The code that came up was P0261 Front Injector Open/Low EFI

I cleared the code and started the bike, let it run for about a minute then shut it off. Re-ran the DTC procedure and "none" came up.

What exactly is this code telling me? The front injector is either stuck open or I have low fuel pressure?

 

[brushfire]

The Seafoam might help with a sticky fuel pressure regulator, but high octane gasoline will do nothing for this problem. High octane does not = cleaner, or more powerful. It simple means that it will resist detonation better than lower octane fuel. In other words, less "pinging" or "spark knock".

Thanks Jennmar, I knew it was more knock resistant, I figured the additives (toulene, etc.) used to boost the octane to 109 would have other beneficial qualities such as helping to remove varnish, etc. Good to know, 109 octane racing fuel at $6.99/gal isn't cheap!

 

[brushfire]

Re: Diagnostic Code P0261

It's probably telling you that the wiring harness to the front injector could have a break in the copper which is masked by the insulation of that wire about an inch from the injector plug.:s

The other part of the mystery is why it only sporadically misfires then gets worse after a number of miles. Vibration would have some effect on the continuity of the signal, but what doesn't make sense is why it doesn't do it all the time.

However, yesterday it started doing the excessive misfiring immediately after it had been sitting for an hour or so... I sure hope Harley isn't having these electrical components made in China.

 

[brushfire]

I forgot to add to do a wiggle test on that wire going to the front injector with the engine idling and see if it stumbles.

There's 2 red wires and 1 white one going to the injector. I used a wooden chopstick and pushed/wiggled the wires around and it didn't stumble.

 

[brushfire]

Re: Diagnostic Code P0261

Heat and vibration play a part in the equation but the cause (if this is what it is) was because the harness was strapped too tightly in a rubber mounted engine that moves.

Heat came to my mind too. Although you'd think that if there's a break it would stumble when wiggled even if it's not at operating temps yet...

Vapor lock also came to mind but I've never heard of a fuel injected system having problems with vapor lock...

 

[brushfire]

Re: Diagnostic Code P0261

I also did a "1,000 one, 1,000 two" count and the pumps only running between 3 to 4 seconds...