no oil pressure.....
- Thread starter formike56
- Start date
formike56
Junior Member
Is their a cure to this problem? I work as a machinist/programmer with a Co. that makes high speed couplings. I understand the problems with excessive runout. Most of our couplings that we balance here have a tolerance of +- .0005. The less runout the better. Is their something the end user can do to keep this from happening? Maybe balancing the crank or pinon? Is this feesible?
porkchop
Active Member
That makes my head hurt!!!!!!!!!
May be time to consider an extended warranty if you plan on keeping he bike.:s
Try entering your VIN here.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/EX/MNT/SCHK/en/servicecheckup.asp?locale=en_US&bmLocale=en_US
Try entering your VIN here.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/EX/MNT/SCHK/en/servicecheckup.asp?locale=en_US&bmLocale=en_US
formike56
Junior Member
new update.. yesterday dealer called an said that HD will not be sending a new motor. Told the dealer to order parts for rebuild. That is not what I wanted. But what I want and what HD want's are 2 differant things. So dealer service manager said that he was ordering all the part's that are needed plus a few extra's. Will see what happen's.
W
wildspirit97
Guest
you should ask them what the cost difference between replacing and rebuilding is. I would also tell them you want the full warranty on the rebuild, if it's supposed to be as good as new. Hope you got a good mechanic at the dealer. Good Luck!!!
I seriously doubt the dealer will oblige you in any of the areas above with the crank because they have to stand behind any modifications not authorized by the MOCO themselves and most aren't willing to do that. Welding the crank would be the way to go.
I understand however that the new cranks have been manufactured to a tighter spec when they are made so maybe they have a handle on this problem and if they don't they deserve to loose their shirt then replacing motors or parts.
I would ask if they are including new jugs and pistons in the parts and also dropping the oil pan to clean it out which should be done if they are interested in doing the job properly.
I understand however that the new cranks have been manufactured to a tighter spec when they are made so maybe they have a handle on this problem and if they don't they deserve to loose their shirt then replacing motors or parts.
I would ask if they are including new jugs and pistons in the parts and also dropping the oil pan to clean it out which should be done if they are interested in doing the job properly.
Exactly as Glider says. In fact from the HD TT324 they say:
"REMEMBER – replace the oil lines and drop the oil pan / tank to clean out any debris."
See here:
Crankshaft Runout (videos) - Harley Davidson Community
If they (Dealership and HD) are NOT going to fully cover a COMPLETE overhaul and will not consider replacing the engine, then see if you can negotiate that they send the engine through the HD Reman program (see here: Harley-Davidson | Accessories And Apparel | Engines | Remanufacturing). The Dealership should like this, since all they have to do is pull the engine, and then replace it when it comes back from the factory. You should like this since the work is being done AT THE FACTORY. And I would hope that HD would like this since it is probably the overall cheapest option. See what you can negotiate!!
TQ
"REMEMBER – replace the oil lines and drop the oil pan / tank to clean out any debris."
See here:
Crankshaft Runout (videos) - Harley Davidson Community
If they (Dealership and HD) are NOT going to fully cover a COMPLETE overhaul and will not consider replacing the engine, then see if you can negotiate that they send the engine through the HD Reman program (see here: Harley-Davidson | Accessories And Apparel | Engines | Remanufacturing). The Dealership should like this, since all they have to do is pull the engine, and then replace it when it comes back from the factory. You should like this since the work is being done AT THE FACTORY. And I would hope that HD would like this since it is probably the overall cheapest option. See what you can negotiate!!
TQ
Excellent post TQ
TT324 (in part) :
Download Link 1
Download Link 2
TT324 – August 22, 2007 - Twin Cam Crankshaft Inspection & Run-Out Specifications
Scissored crankshafts (when they shift out of true at the crank pin) generally show up in
one of two different symptoms: no oil pressure or vibration.
No Oil Pressure
When the right side crankshaft half shifts more than 0.015” it can break the oil pump’s
gerotors, resulting in a loss of oil pressure. Diagnostics of a low oil pressure situation is
outlined in Section One of the Service Manual, under the Troubleshooting chapter.
After analyzing the system as outlined under “Low Oil Pressure” and confirming a very
low to no oil pressure you will need to remove the cam cover for inspection of the oil
pump and cam support plate. If you find the oil pump gerotors bound or broken it could
be from a contaminate running through the pump or a scissored crankshaft.
REMEMBER – replace the oil lines and drop the oil pan / tank to clean out any debris.
Inspection of the right side crankshaft run-out requires a dial indicator and a flexible
mounting arm.
Proper set-up is critical to accurate readings:
• The reading must be taken directly on the crankshaft at the machined surface for
the cam support plate bushing
Do not use bolts or sleeves threaded into the right side crankshaft.
• The indicator must be perpendicular to the shaft
• The engine should be rotated by removing the spark plugs, shifting the
transmission into the highest gear, and rotating the raised rear wheel
• Use the machined flat spot in the shaft, that retains the sprocket, as a reference
point to zero the dial indicator and start taking measurements
• The Service Wear Limit for crankshaft total run-out in the case is 0.012”
Remember at this point your readings are only an estimate of true crankshaft run-out.
If your reading exceeds 0.012” it is very likely the crankshaft needs to be replaced.
If the vehicle is under warranty stop and contact Technical Service to discuss the
appropriate repair or inspection procedures before continuing.
If the vehicle is out of warranty you will need to discuss the appropriate repair with the
customer (ESP coverage, flywheel replacement, dealer level rebuild, or factory Reman).
In order to take a more accurate reading of the crankshaft run-out it will require
removing the flywheels from the crankcases.
TT324 (in part) :
Download Link 1
Download Link 2
TT324 – August 22, 2007 - Twin Cam Crankshaft Inspection & Run-Out Specifications
Scissored crankshafts (when they shift out of true at the crank pin) generally show up in
one of two different symptoms: no oil pressure or vibration.
No Oil Pressure
When the right side crankshaft half shifts more than 0.015” it can break the oil pump’s
gerotors, resulting in a loss of oil pressure. Diagnostics of a low oil pressure situation is
outlined in Section One of the Service Manual, under the Troubleshooting chapter.
After analyzing the system as outlined under “Low Oil Pressure” and confirming a very
low to no oil pressure you will need to remove the cam cover for inspection of the oil
pump and cam support plate. If you find the oil pump gerotors bound or broken it could
be from a contaminate running through the pump or a scissored crankshaft.
REMEMBER – replace the oil lines and drop the oil pan / tank to clean out any debris.
Inspection of the right side crankshaft run-out requires a dial indicator and a flexible
mounting arm.
Proper set-up is critical to accurate readings:
• The reading must be taken directly on the crankshaft at the machined surface for
the cam support plate bushing
Do not use bolts or sleeves threaded into the right side crankshaft.
• The indicator must be perpendicular to the shaft
• The engine should be rotated by removing the spark plugs, shifting the
transmission into the highest gear, and rotating the raised rear wheel
• Use the machined flat spot in the shaft, that retains the sprocket, as a reference
point to zero the dial indicator and start taking measurements
• The Service Wear Limit for crankshaft total run-out in the case is 0.012”
Remember at this point your readings are only an estimate of true crankshaft run-out.
If your reading exceeds 0.012” it is very likely the crankshaft needs to be replaced.
If the vehicle is under warranty stop and contact Technical Service to discuss the
appropriate repair or inspection procedures before continuing.
If the vehicle is out of warranty you will need to discuss the appropriate repair with the
customer (ESP coverage, flywheel replacement, dealer level rebuild, or factory Reman).
In order to take a more accurate reading of the crankshaft run-out it will require
removing the flywheels from the crankcases.