Bagger engine build

[dolt]

Dolt, that was not the recommendation I was referring to. In fact I did not see the note you quoted. What I had seen was included in the information that accompanied the 106" kit. I will try to look it up again when i get home tonight. One other caveat that may impact this discussion is that the note referred to the 551 EZ Start cam. I am certainly not married to any particular setup at this point and I am not trying to argue with you. I just want to understand where you were coming from and why you were making the recommendation that you did. I had an Andrews cam in my last bike ('86 FLHTC). 80" Evo that I was very happy with. I certainly do not want to create any driveability issues for myself.

On a related note, I saw on another thread that you recommended a couple of other shops for head work. Just wondered if you knew of one in north central Indiana? I am not opposed to shipping the heads to Maine, but if there is a local shop capable of doing the work, I would prefer to stay local. Thanks again for the input.

Please don't misunderstand; I did not intend to come across as argumentative and, if I did, apologies. Bottom line of cam selection is to collect the data and do the math before selecting any cam and then build around the cam set.


The EZ Start cams would address high CCP but not corrected CR. I don't like the EZ Start cams for the simple reason that one cannot get an accurate read of static compression with those cams. That may not matter to some but I like being able to diagnose top end issues and compression and leak down tests are the two primary diagnostic metrics.

I understand the desire to work with someone local; makes sense. However, I do not know of any head porters in north central Indiana. Atwood Performance is located in Newark, Ohio; Arn is the owner/porter and is quite good. He may not be local but if only a 3-4 hour drive away; at least you could meet the guy, talk face to face and Arn can help with all your motor questions/isues and what works best with his heads.

Atwood Performance

 

[Hoople]

Uh oh..... what's wrong with Mobil 1??? (

Nothing is wrong with it. It has just never worked for me in several different engines. But at the same time I have friends that use it with outstanding results.
You really got me...theres something about that oil & me that just don't mix.

 

[Jennmarr]

Please don't misunderstand; I did not intend to come across as argumentative and, if I did, apologies. Bottom line of cam selection is to collect the data and do the math before selecting any cam and then build around the cam set.


The EZ Start cams would address high CCP but not corrected CR. I don't like the EZ Start cams for the simple reason that one cannot get an accurate read of static compression with those cams. That may not matter to some but I like being able to diagnose top end issues and compression and leak down tests are the two primary diagnostic metrics.

I understand the desire to work with someone local; makes sense. However, I do not know of any head porters in north central Indiana. Atwood Performance is located in Newark, Ohio; Arn is the owner/porter and is quite good. He may not be local but if only a 3-4 hour drive away; at least you could meet the guy, talk face to face and Arn can help with all your motor questions/isues and what works best with his heads.

Atwood Performance

Dolt, you did not sound argumentative, I was afraid I was sounding that way. Here is a link to the page on the S&S website that I was referring to: http://www.sscycle.com/uploads/feature/106-5009_big_bore_kit_lr.pdf

Maybe I am misinterpreting what they are recommending here.
I am a little leery of the easy start cams also, but just because I thought they added another moving part. One thing I know for certain about moving parts is that eventually they will fail.

 

[dolt]

Dolt, you did not sound argumentative, I was afraid I was sounding that way. Here is a link to the page on the S&S website that I was referring to: http://www.sscycle.com/uploads/feature/106-5009_big_bore_kit_lr.pdf

Maybe I am misinterpreting what they are recommending here.
I am a little leery of the easy start cams also, but just because I thought they added another moving part. One thing I know for certain about moving parts is that eventually they will fail.

I don't think you are misinterpreting. What we know from the website is that the heads were CNC ported but what we don't know is the compression of each combination; I am betting that they are not the same. At the risk of repeating myself, collect the data, do the math and pick a cam set. I must say that from looking at the dyno charts, the 551 curve would not be my choice unless I was a two up and loaded tourer. I like the 585 curve, 95-100 TQ kicking in about 2600rpms does it for me on the lower end and I really like what starts happening at 3000rpms but I am solo more than two up and I run 75-85mph whenever I can. Cam selection depends on your riding style as much as anything.

 

[HDDon]

With either of the setups would you run compression releases?

 

[Jennmarr]

I don't think you are misinterpreting. What we know from the website is that the heads were CNC ported but what we don't know is the compression of each combination; I am betting that they are not the same. At the risk of repeating myself, collect the data, do the math and pick a cam set. I must say that from looking at the dyno charts, the 551 curve would not be my choice unless I was a two up and loaded tourer. I like the 585 curve, 95-100 TQ kicking in about 2600rpms does it for me on the lower end and I really like what starts happening at 3000rpms but I am solo more than two up and I run 75-85mph whenever I can. Cam selection depends on your riding style as much as anything.

I will collect the data, but I think I'm starting to see what you are talking about. Most of my riding is solo for my commute to work, but my primary consideration for this engine build is two up touring. Part of the time we will be pulling a trailer as well. We have done over 7k that way so far this year, and I hope we get at least another 3-4k before the season ends.

 

[dolt]

With either of the setups would you run compression releases?

Yes. Anytime CCP approaches 190psi, I would run compression releases even though one could get by without them. They really do extend battery and starter life and eliminate the possibility of a nasty heat soaked restart.

I will collect the data, but I think I'm starting to see what you are talking about. Most of my riding is solo for my commute to work, but my primary consideration for this engine build is two up touring. Part of the time we will be pulling a trailer as well. We have done over 7k that way so far this year, and I hope we get at least another 3-4k before the season ends.

Two up, loaded and a trailer would definitely point you to the 551 or a cam with a similar profile like the SE255, TMan Torkster 555 or the Andrews 48. Work with head porter and get the compression right for whichever cam set you choose and good luck with the project; half the fun is building.

 

[Jennmarr]

Dolt, finally had a few minutes to hunt the specs for the pistons used in the S&S 106" kit we were discussing. The information is not easy to obtain, but as near as I can determine they are flat top pistons with a deck height of 1.090" and require a finished bore diameter of 3.927".

 

[dolt]

Dolt, finally had a few minutes to hunt the specs for the pistons used in the S&S 106" kit we were discussing. The information is not easy to obtain, but as near as I can determine they are flat top pistons with a deck height of 1.090" and require a finished bore diameter of 3.927".

You need the dome volume. If the pistons are flat tops, the could be anywhere from -1.5 to -3 depending on the size of the valve reliefs. I am betting it is closer to -3 than -1.5.

 

[Jennmarr]

Dolt, still have not had time to chase down the done volume on those pistons, but I have been thinking about something else you said regarding the EZ start cams. You were hesitant about their use because the compression release feature would preclude the ability to perform a leak down test for diagnostics. My question: if quick install push rods were used couldn't they be backed off (or removed entirely) until the valves were seated and then proceed with the test as usual?

Finally got the info on the pistons. According to S&S Technical Assistance, each valve pocket has a volume of 2cc giving a negative dome value of 4cc.