Check on that it should be 950-1050 hot idle speed. Maybe that's why you couldn't find the timing marks?
Timing is way out... no seeming adjustment
- Thread starter oowf
- Start date
Check on that it should be 950-1050 hot idle speed. Maybe that's why you couldn't find the timing marks?
Aaa haa! That must be a typo in the book. See what happens if you slow the idle speed down closer to 950. Also, make sure that the vacuum hose on the VOES is like new and is not leaking. See if you now have to turn the plate back into the premodification range for it to run right, and the timing mark to show up in the window.
BTW, without going back to check, what was the reason for fiddling with the timing?
TQ
BTW, without going back to check, what was the reason for fiddling with the timing?
TQ
oowf
Member
Ok gentlemen... I have to get back on this issue...
First of all I thank all of you for your comments to date on this but I still have a problem.
The reason for the length of time between the posts regarding my timing issue is the length of time it takes me to get replacement parts.
So here goes.
I ordered a new cam sensor and VOES valve and installed them. (They just arrived yesterday) I put white acrylic paint on the both the vertical slash and the dot to make them more visible to the timing light but wanted to set my Static timing as close as possible first.
I finally got the Deutch connectors and made the wire adapter to do the static timing check and set.
Here is what I have.
Using the test cable and voltage meter, with the vertical timing mark on the flywheel in dead center of the view port, I move the sensor plate back and forth and I DO get the drop from 5V down to the 1V. However... and please note... to accomplish that I have to completely remove the two sensor plate studs because without them out of the way, the plate won't move far enough to achieve the voltage drop.
When I finally do get the voltage drop which according to the book indicates the static timing is right, the sensor plate is moved in the retarded direction so far that only about 1/4 of the two holes where the sensor plate studs should go are visible. Which means for me to place the two studs back in place, I will need to move the sensor plate back in the Advance direction and I won't be near the position where the voltage should drop. If I do that I won't have any adjustment in the retard direction at all when I get to the dynamic timing function.
Does anyone have any idea what could be wrong here? Please note... this is all to do with the Static timing at this point... can't even get it close so the engine is not running during this process so I would think the carburetor and/or intake are not an issue at this point. Is there something that could have jumped like a timing chain or something?
The bike is on the stand as it has been for about four weeks now.
All of this problem started with my wanting to make sure the timing was Ok and i broke the Sensor Plate Stud... (if you remember). Nothing else happened as far as I can tell and prior to that the bike was running with just enough doubt to make me want to check the timing.
Please help...
I can even call someone if they would like to talk about this in real time.
Thanks and cheers!
First of all I thank all of you for your comments to date on this but I still have a problem.
The reason for the length of time between the posts regarding my timing issue is the length of time it takes me to get replacement parts.
So here goes.
I ordered a new cam sensor and VOES valve and installed them. (They just arrived yesterday) I put white acrylic paint on the both the vertical slash and the dot to make them more visible to the timing light but wanted to set my Static timing as close as possible first.
I finally got the Deutch connectors and made the wire adapter to do the static timing check and set.
Here is what I have.
Using the test cable and voltage meter, with the vertical timing mark on the flywheel in dead center of the view port, I move the sensor plate back and forth and I DO get the drop from 5V down to the 1V. However... and please note... to accomplish that I have to completely remove the two sensor plate studs because without them out of the way, the plate won't move far enough to achieve the voltage drop.
When I finally do get the voltage drop which according to the book indicates the static timing is right, the sensor plate is moved in the retarded direction so far that only about 1/4 of the two holes where the sensor plate studs should go are visible. Which means for me to place the two studs back in place, I will need to move the sensor plate back in the Advance direction and I won't be near the position where the voltage should drop. If I do that I won't have any adjustment in the retard direction at all when I get to the dynamic timing function.
Does anyone have any idea what could be wrong here? Please note... this is all to do with the Static timing at this point... can't even get it close so the engine is not running during this process so I would think the carburetor and/or intake are not an issue at this point. Is there something that could have jumped like a timing chain or something?
The bike is on the stand as it has been for about four weeks now.
All of this problem started with my wanting to make sure the timing was Ok and i broke the Sensor Plate Stud... (if you remember). Nothing else happened as far as I can tell and prior to that the bike was running with just enough doubt to make me want to check the timing.
Please help...
I can even call someone if they would like to talk about this in real time.
Thanks and cheers!
I'm no expert by any means but trouble shooting 101 tells me that if the bike ran good before you did anything and you said it did, then look at what you did for any new problems.
Anotherwords, the pipes are changing color, you get popping and power surges but all you did is mess with the sensor and timing, then I would hesitate to mess with the jetting. Atleast until you can see the timing marks in the window and know that is totally correct, and have tested the voes.
BTW: Blue pipes equal lean and golden brown are rich. atleast what I have seen. Not sure what effect timeing has on them but since too advanced make it run hotter just like lean conditions, I'd assume they would blue from that. And I guess the reverse is true for too retarded. Anyone know for sure?
Doug
Doug
Anotherwords, the pipes are changing color, you get popping and power surges but all you did is mess with the sensor and timing, then I would hesitate to mess with the jetting. Atleast until you can see the timing marks in the window and know that is totally correct, and have tested the voes.
BTW: Blue pipes equal lean and golden brown are rich. atleast what I have seen. Not sure what effect timeing has on them but since too advanced make it run hotter just like lean conditions, I'd assume they would blue from that. And I guess the reverse is true for too retarded. Anyone know for sure?
Doug
Doug
Advanced is cool, retarded runs hotter. Are you sure the points are the proper set and the gap is correct?
If you have a dwell meter, figure 1/2 the reading set on a 4 cylinder scale and that should equal 32* point dwell where it should be. If the points are out significantly , timing will be way out also. Using a dwell meter on a NEW set of points is the most acurate way of setting the points. Then deal with the timing.
If you have a dwell meter, figure 1/2 the reading set on a 4 cylinder scale and that should equal 32* point dwell where it should be. If the points are out significantly , timing will be way out also. Using a dwell meter on a NEW set of points is the most acurate way of setting the points. Then deal with the timing.
oowf
Member
Glider... I completely missed this post when it came in. I don't have points but your comments bring up a question I have had turning over in my mind for some time now.
Since I am having so much trouble with the timing (new sensor plate and new VOES valve and hose) should I consider switching over to a points system? It seems to me that is going backwards but since I can't seem to hit on the problems with this timing issue I need to do something. Winter will be past before we know it and the rate things are going I still won't have my ride ready...
Cheers
Since I am having so much trouble with the timing (new sensor plate and new VOES valve and hose) should I consider switching over to a points system? It seems to me that is going backwards but since I can't seem to hit on the problems with this timing issue I need to do something. Winter will be past before we know it and the rate things are going I still won't have my ride ready...
Cheers
oowf
Member
Thank you for your response Doug.
I wish I could go back in time before this mess all started.
The bike was running good but there was some question in my mind about the timing due to starting, popping and deceleration backfiring. I modified my carb (went to a 46 and 185) and that did improve things but the nagging problem kept bothering me.
I decided to get into the cone where the timing sensor plate was and make sure my timing was dead on. In the process I broke one of the studs that secure the plate in place and that opened an entire new problem in that I am in China and there is no such thing as a dealer near by... I ended up taking the cone off and drilling out the broken stud. That created a larger hole so I eventually had a new stud machined and a matching sized hole tapped into the cone.
This was fine but then the fastening adjustment slot in the plate where the newly machined screw needed to go was too small so I used my Dremell Tool and worried that slot large enough to allow me to install it with the newly machined screw as well as give me the adjustment leway I needed.
During this process I found on of the exhaust studs was missing and the one exhaust pipe was loose and leaking. The is problem ended up being the reason for all of the search and repair (destroy?) in the first place but by this time I had this mess in the Sensor Plate cone area.
After buttoning it all back up I was never able to even see the timing marks in the view port despite various plastic view plugs I have obtained from various sources. Also at this point I was not able to do the Static timing test as I was waiting for the Deutsch connectors to make the test harness. (Which I now have)
Not being able to get anything working just right and afraid my timing was really off I stopped riding the bike and waited for the new Sensor Plate and VOES valve I had ordered from the States.
They arrived day before yesterday and that led to my previous post about the Static timing problem.
So as you can see, with the stud breaking and so forth I can't go back to the original set up, no matter how much I would like to.
Cheers...
oowf
Member
No Glider. No points. It is the stock Sensor Plate. I now know it is (was) stock because I ordered a new one just in case and I ordered the original HD sensor and it is exactly the same (including number) as the one I took off.
Question... Sometimes I don't make myself so clear.... did you understand my de-lima with the Static timing? Not being able to get it where it should be... at the point where it drops from 5 volt to 0-1 volt? I can get that result but to do so I have to completely remove the two sensor plate studs and retard the plate past the end of the adjustment opening and stud holes. The vertical TDC mark on the flywheel is dead center in the site hole at this time.
If you go to Setting Ignition Timing on your Harley and look at the timing marks for the 1995 and later export models you will see the exact timing marks I have on my bike.
Thank You!