New project coming down the pike
- Thread starter Mongo1958
- Start date
dolt
Well-Known Member
The '07 up OEM cam plate is cast aluminum and the outer cam journals run in the parent material of the cam plate. A poor design IMHO but undoubtedly some MBA MoCo bean counter showed the bottom line savings by eliminating those two bearings and management jumped on it.
You can upgrade to the SE billet plate/pump upgrade kit, PN 25282-11 for about $350, plus shipping from an online discount dealer. The billet plate has bronze bushings for the outer cam journals. Another great bean counter idea, I can hear he/she presenting the idea now.
"Hey guys, we can reduce the quality of the OEM cam plate and save $2.50 on every bike we sell and then we can sell the customer what we should have installed at the factory for a bundle to upgrade the inferior OEM piece of hardware; we make money coming and going".:rofl
BUBBIE
Well-Known Member
MY thinking and on another Builders Forum...
The Parent material talked about is TOUGH... Better than the Bronze Bushings used on earlier motors...
I have had listened to the many that say they are not as good as other designs... But I have to disagree... Honda, BMW and other bikes have used that"Parent Material" for years,,,,long enough to say it works well...
Some of the Trusted named HD shop owners and builders I know,,,, say : The parent material has been out for about 8 years in HD and No wear issues to this date.
My bike has 83,000 miles on it now and no problem using the Parent Material along with the same Original Stock High Flow Oil pump...
I Only replaced the cam plate once early on with the newer one "A" (yet parent material cam plate) because of a Thought to be the problem of the relief valve. "A" was a manufacturing change and still used the same Parent Material on the 3 holes (2 Cams, one Crank)
I would NOT trust the SE cam-plate as it is made from Billet Aluminum Then Hardened... I stay clear of it like NEVER on or in my bike.
MANY opinions but I Like Mine...
No conflict with dolt and no problem for his believing Differently than I do...
signed....BUBBIE
The Parent material talked about is TOUGH... Better than the Bronze Bushings used on earlier motors...
I have had listened to the many that say they are not as good as other designs... But I have to disagree... Honda, BMW and other bikes have used that"Parent Material" for years,,,,long enough to say it works well...
Some of the Trusted named HD shop owners and builders I know,,,, say : The parent material has been out for about 8 years in HD and No wear issues to this date.
My bike has 83,000 miles on it now and no problem using the Parent Material along with the same Original Stock High Flow Oil pump...
I Only replaced the cam plate once early on with the newer one "A" (yet parent material cam plate) because of a Thought to be the problem of the relief valve. "A" was a manufacturing change and still used the same Parent Material on the 3 holes (2 Cams, one Crank)
I would NOT trust the SE cam-plate as it is made from Billet Aluminum Then Hardened... I stay clear of it like NEVER on or in my bike.
MANY opinions but I Like Mine...
No conflict with dolt and no problem for his believing Differently than I do...
signed....BUBBIE
Jennmarr
Junior Member
I hesitate to offer an opinion that even remotely conflicts with Dolt's view on something, but I have to agree with Bubbie on this one. Plain bearings have been a staple in automotive engines for decades, and the parent material design is in use on the camshaft journals in virtually every overhead cam engine on the road today.
dolt
Well-Known Member
I have no issues with the disagreement and not problems with the OEM cams in a stock motor running in the parent material. However, I have seen the parent material fail in hipo applications with long cams and high compression; seen them wallow out in less than 5K miles. The OEM cam plate was not designed to stand up to the demand of a hipo motor.
The first thing I take issue with is comparing the manufacturing tolerances of Honda and BMW to those used by Harley.:bigsmiley29: Harley's manufacturing tolerances are pitiful and their QA/QC is nowhere near that of BMW or Honda. Measure five sets of OEM cylinders and pistons for fitment and I will bet a six pack that three of them will be out of spec.:s
Second thing I take issue with is the quality of the OEM cam plate casting which also poor. Surely you guys have seen them with casting flashing at the edges. I still run the OEM cam plate in my 95" FXSTD but with gear drive cams and roller outer cam bearings. My 107" FLHT runs the SE billet plate.
I do agree that in a low rpm application, like the TC motor, the OEM cam plate is sufficient. However, I don't think it an appropriate design in a motorcycle that costs $20K and maintain that the Harley bean counters made this decision, not the engineers. If the engineers had made the decision, I believe there would be pressed in bronze bushings in the OEM cam plate. How else can you explain that before the advent of the 96" motor, the 88" motors included a cam plate with roller/ ball bearings?:bigsmiley6:
We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I will take 660 bronze bushings to the parent material of the OEM cam plate every time in a hipo motor. I believe one reason we don't hear more about failures is because so many upgrade to the SE plate when upgrading performance but that's JMHO.
The first thing I take issue with is comparing the manufacturing tolerances of Honda and BMW to those used by Harley.:bigsmiley29: Harley's manufacturing tolerances are pitiful and their QA/QC is nowhere near that of BMW or Honda. Measure five sets of OEM cylinders and pistons for fitment and I will bet a six pack that three of them will be out of spec.:s
Second thing I take issue with is the quality of the OEM cam plate casting which also poor. Surely you guys have seen them with casting flashing at the edges. I still run the OEM cam plate in my 95" FXSTD but with gear drive cams and roller outer cam bearings. My 107" FLHT runs the SE billet plate.
I do agree that in a low rpm application, like the TC motor, the OEM cam plate is sufficient. However, I don't think it an appropriate design in a motorcycle that costs $20K and maintain that the Harley bean counters made this decision, not the engineers. If the engineers had made the decision, I believe there would be pressed in bronze bushings in the OEM cam plate. How else can you explain that before the advent of the 96" motor, the 88" motors included a cam plate with roller/ ball bearings?:bigsmiley6:
We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I will take 660 bronze bushings to the parent material of the OEM cam plate every time in a hipo motor. I believe one reason we don't hear more about failures is because so many upgrade to the SE plate when upgrading performance but that's JMHO.
See... That's why I hesitate to disagree with Dolt. Just when I think I'm making a good point he dismantles it with sound reasoning and good logic.
He's undeniably one of the best when it comes to that!
J
Jack Klarich
Guest
See... That's why I hesitate to disagree with Dolt. Just when I think I'm making a good point he dismantles it with sound reasoning and good logic.
Dolt is good there aint NO doubt about that, that said MOST guys with stock motors should not have a problem here UNLESS the crank run out is an issue like mine was, not only did it take out my rods but it cracked the cam plate and oil pump in half, yet the bike still ran enough for me to ride it to the dealer:s If in doubt and you have noise get it checked out, LOL i had mine checked but they said it was the primary chain tensioner wound up too tight SOOOOO I rode it and got a new motor for 50.00 deductable with ESP