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WHY 3 HOLES and USE ONE oil???

These are all great ancedotal opinions. Nothing presented is backed up by facts or research. "In my experience...", "I've found..." While I do believe the MoCo is operating in a mode that is best for their bottom line, I also don't believe there's any evidence supporing the notion that their recommendation that Syn3 in all 3 holes is bad. Yes, I know, I hear that "some dealers" are finding it doesn't work as expected. What's that mean? Are engines not lasting as long? Do transmissions wear out sooner? How about clutches? If that were true, and there was hard, factual data to support it, it'd be pretty easy to bring litigation against a dealer or the MoCo for damages to the motorcycle, which would make them change their recommendation. A mechanic recommending something other than Syn3 in all holes... that's a litmus test of what? Could just be that the mechanic receives a higher profit from selling that product.

With that said, I know there are qualitative differences between different lubricants. And, while there is no evidence that using a lubricant that exceeds the recommendation is better... it makes me feel better to use Redline lubricants. However, I'm willing to admit that I do it "just because" of a gut feeling that it's better. I do that without implying that the choices made by others are wrong or foolish. Syn3 in all holes... only Amsoil... Mobil1 is best. We all make choices... I just think it's wrong to pretend that personal opinion/personal experience is the same as data.

By the way, I certainly don't mean any of that in a mean, nasty or argumentative way. Hope it's taken for what it is... thanks. :)
 
drbillk said:
These are all great ancedotal opinions. Nothing presented is backed up by facts or research. "In my experience...", "I've found..." While I do believe the MoCo is operating in a mode that is best for their bottom line, I also don't believe there's any evidence supporing the notion that their recommendation that Syn3 in all 3 holes is bad. Yes, I know, I hear that "some dealers" are finding it doesn't work as expected. What's that mean? Are engines not lasting as long? Do transmissions wear out sooner? How about clutches? If that were true, and there was hard, factual data to support it, it'd be pretty easy to bring litigation against a dealer or the MoCo for damages to the motorcycle, which would make them change their recommendation. A mechanic recommending something other than Syn3 in all holes... that's a litmus test of what? Could just be that the mechanic receives a higher profit from selling that product.

With that said, I know there are qualitative differences between different lubricants. And, while there is no evidence that using a lubricant that exceeds the recommendation is better... it makes me feel better to use Redline lubricants. However, I'm willing to admit that I do it "just because" of a gut feeling that it's better. I do that without implying that the choices made by others are wrong or foolish. Syn3 in all holes... only Amsoil... Mobil1 is best. We all make choices... I just think it's wrong to pretend that personal opinion/personal experience is the same as data.

By the way, I certainly don't mean any of that in a mean, nasty or argumentative way. Hope it's taken for what it is... thanks. :)
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I agree (and I don't take it as nasty or mean, I get your point). The only data that most of us will get is the data that we accrue. The MoCo is not going to give that info out. I am sure it exists for some items, but you as an individual will always have your variability. Then you have all the variables from each assembly line worker, the riding habits as well as the roads themselves. Syn 3 really could be the best but even if it causes premature wear, litigation is tough because you "ride hard". There is also the issue that many HD owners trade in their ride for something new, rather frequently. That combined with the typical low mileage can grately skew the results when you want to compare long term wear.

As far as fact: true synthetics (mobile 1 for example) have a higher working temperature (up to 300F compared to the typical 250F). Will that variable "save my motor"? Don't know. But I do know that when I ran Syn3, with my MC and riding habits, there was always metal on the magnet. Same thing for the transmission. When I switched to "my brands" this no longer occured. The metal on the magnet was for 6 oil changes (all fluids), every 3000K miles so it wasn't "just break in".
I went back to Syn 3 in the tranny after using Specto, with a clean plug for 3K miles. Metal was back. So, there is my personal data. Unique to my particular MC: sure. Given my riding habits I think go pretty easy. My commute is 500 miles/week on flat highway. I shift between 18 and 30 times for a typical round trip commute and stay in 6th gear for most of the trip at 73mph on cruise. So, for engine and tranny, I think I have solid data. Clutch: I don't shift enough that I could get reasonable info as I have adjusted my clutch 2 times in 43K.

My wife's 2002 Dyna: much lower miles and different riding habit (but still easy), but the metal on/not on the plug magnets was still observed with fluid manufacturer changes. So, my anecdotal data spans two differnt models. Also you are making an assumption when you say, "And, while there is no evidence that using a lubricant that exceeds the recommendation is better..". You are assuming the recommendation is correct and applicable to all parties involved. Manufacturers make mistakes and things do improve.
 
@Porter... couldn't agree more. I, too, have made many observations over the years... with MANY motorcycles. As I said, I use Redline... my personal preference... which first caught my eye when it was recommended to me to cure a hard-shifting cage. Their MTL worked great and I've used them ever since. However, that's still anecdotal... of course, since it's mine, it's correct. LOL. Kidding.

I guess I was just thrown by the way "opinions" become "facts". I'm not one to trade my bike in often, nor does it have low mileage. I currently have a 2004 Ultra with 80K on it... all my miles... would've been more were it not for a break due to deployment. I also have a 1976 BWM R90S that has more miles than I know. So, I use my Redline and I'm happy. Of course, if I'm out on the road for a long trip and need an oil change along the way... I'll stop at a stealership and let them put in SYN3.

But, like you said... depends on how the bike is ridden too. I don't care what you use for lubricant... ride it in heavy city traffic, day in and day out, you can't follow the MoCo recommendations. Just like most vehicles I've owned, the owner's manual will tell you to modify the recommendations based upon useage. However, that makes me wonder... does anyone know the maintenance schedule followed by NYPD for their bikes, or what lubricants they use? Hmmmmmm... that might make some interesting data.
 
drbillk

Nothing presented is backed up by facts or research
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The information I post on oil is as a result of over 21 years of usage in my own business and I also have facts to back my choices of oil up such as maintenance records and MDS's but the blued shifter forks from lack of proper lube in more than one instance from using Syn 3 in the trans instead of a quality gear oil and other issues from using an inferior oil like SYN 3 is more than enough proof for me and that Syn 3 isn't even a full synthetic for starters.

No sense in posting anything here because after all it's your ride and your choice which oil to use.

BTW, why did they supersede the SYN 3 with Formula+ if it was doing it's job? :D
 
While I'm not going to get into the debate of which brand of oil is better I will say that Syn3 in the trans. didn't work for me. With Syn3 in my trans. after riding 500 miles in 100 degree heat my shifter woud drag and not spring back to centered position, it wasn't locked up, just had enough drag that it wouldn't spring back. I completely got rid of the Syn3 and went to Amsoil20/50 in all three holes, and then Mobile 1 in all three holes and never had that problem again. I'm now running 75/140 in the trans. because of the many recomendations on this site and others and my trans. shifts very smooth and is much quieter. On a side note I've heard that Harley, well whoever blends their oil anyway, has reformulated their Syn 3 since then but still not going to try it again.
 
glider said:
drbillk

21 years of usage in my own business and I also have facts to back my choices of oil up such as maintenance records and MDS's but the blued shifter forks from lack of proper lube in more than one instance from using Syn 3 in the trans instead of a quality gear oil and other issues from using an inferior oil like SYN 3 is more than enough proof for me

BTW, why did they supersede the SYN 3 with Formula+ if it was doing it's job? :D
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That's still anecdotal. That's your experience. Perhaps the move from SYN3 to Formula+ coincided with other changes in the engines such as cubic inches? It could also be that they came up with something better... the same reason the MoCo switched from a total loss oiling system... new and improved.

And, let me just say one more time... I don't use SYN3 unless I have no other option, like being on the road. My only point was that there's a difference between experience, opinion and well-controlled test data. We all make our own decisions... I'm willing to admit mine are sometimes just based on opinion, like my lubricant choices. I won't cloud the issue by claiming it's something else. :)

:bigsmiley12:
 
Obviously results from 21 years of experience aren't valid for you.

I know what works best from experience and if you chose to use peanut oil in your engine, that's OK too.

Like said above....it's your ride and your choice which oil to use.

You may be a Capt in the navy but when it comes to harleys.................:D
 
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