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SERT or just a download?

wildspirit97 said:
as far as I know the SERT is the only thing that does leave a fingerprint. Course I don't know everything...............Yet:D
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SERT does indeed leave a fingerprint, a BIG one. Only thing it is a HD fingerprint. TFI leaves NO fingerprint. Also TFI is way less money, can remove it and use on any bike, needs no dyno, performs great, better warranty. Other than that nothing I guess. :small3d023:
 
How come nobody like the thundermax tuner.....is it just too much $$$$
 
wildspirit97 said:
How come nobody like the thundermax tuner.....is it just too much $$$$
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As good a piece of equipment as it seems to be there are a few reasons I don't think it's worth it.

It's fairly new , next is price and if you break down on the road with one of these, the dealers will not work on your bike, I think it's overkill when TFI will do what's needed for much less (add fuel). I'm sure that it may run a little better with the T Max after it dials itself in but it doesn't justify the price difference IMO.
When you consider that a stage 1 and slipons will net about 10-12 HP and better TQ, the T max doesn't add much more on it's own to justify the cost.
 
yes, it stays with that ecm (not the bike ) , but i see your point hobbit. yes the bike can be put back to stock with a free ,( dont let the dealers tell you otherwise) stock download. tfi and pcIII, both eliminate 02 sensors. but all i'm saying is this....the ecm ,together with ALL of its sensors are way more advanced TODAY then even as close as 3 years ago. pc I, pc II ran the 2006 and down very good , even then the map table for the sert was on the small side. even when installing on an 01 to 04 the tables are tiny compared to today . i know its costly, i know it requires dyno time , but like glider said, he wouldn't want to take a chance on a 20k to 30k bike . why wouldn't you want to put a tuner that has the most tuning capabilities in your bike and as long as you have that bike , no matter what you do to the motor you can allways have a bike that run at peak performace. you even said yourself by bringing up the istall of wide band 02 sensors....the more iformation that the ecm gets , the better it can decide what the bike needs to run correctly no matter where your riding........why would you want to eliminate sensors? thats taking away from any modules ( tfi , pcIII,or whatever) ability to male correct and accurate decisions. the sert is letting the ecm decide with using all its sensors. so it can be as advanced as the com puter is . a coule of us hear are playing with putting a later 07 ecm into an 05 flhtc, and adding o2 sensors to the exhaust....reasons being the newer ecm can make better / faster decisions the the ecm the 05 came with.
 
What's wrong with having 100+ HP on a Road King. If you do a lot of 2 up riding on freeways or interstates the extra power comes in very handy and has saved my butt more than once. If you have a $300,000 Lambourgini who wouldn't spank it good on occasion. Just because you have the ponies don't mean you have to ride em wide open all the time. It's called restraint, but it's there if you want it or need it. I LOVE HORSEPOWER!!!
JJRJ
 
Hobbit said:
hehehehehe another looney
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Ya, I'm a loony as you say. I have an '04 Road King with a 95" kit, 10 1/2 - 1 forged pistons, SE performance heads, SE 257 cams roller rockers, aluminum pushrods, high flow air intake, aSERT, and SE performance mufflers ( not available through HD dealers any more due to EPA noise regulations). I also put a 6 speed gear set in. I love the way the bike runs...I can bury the speedo 2 up sitting upright behind the windshield. All the mods were done when the bike had zero miles on it at the HD dealer where I got the bike. According to them at the time the warranty was still good. Now with 57,000 + miles on it the warranty is not an issue. The SERT came with the CD that has both tuning and data modes plus the manual and the interface between the bike and a lap top. The SERT does "lock in" to one ECM only, but at 59 years old and after 6 Harleys, I'm sure this is the last one I'll own. The data mode has hundreds of tuning presets for everything from stage I to 1550 HO, which is what mine is. You just look down the list for the right year, model, and mods. This is a good starting point for your particular mods but the parameters can be modified as far as fuel curve, ignition timing, etc.in increments of 250 RPM's. Then you can load that data in the tuning mode to transfer to the bike. The tuning mode has 11 different parameters that can be tweaked...several of them for front and rear cylinders. The data mode lets you see what the current state of tune is on the bike when you plug it in. I wouldn't say it's rocket science, if it don't work you can change it back. Ride and tweak...no dyno. I my self miss the days of carbs, rejetting and the like. You can't even set the idle with a screwdriver anymore. So this is a whole different ball game and I intend on learning as much about the actual custom mapping as I can.
For stage I or Stage II something other than a SERT would be fine, but if you really want control over the ECM I think a SERT is the only way to go.
JJRJ
 
There is some wrong information in this thread. Direct Link and MasterTune leave no fingerprint on the ECU. MasterTune allows you to save the original base calibration if you desire. TFI only adds fuel, no matter what year bike and what has been added I see very few that need to add fuel only. In a lot of cases and some areas of the fuel tables, fuel does need to be removed. Direct Link, MasterTune, SERT and SEST all program the ECU on the bike. TFI, PC, FuelPak, and others are all addon hardware devices that are intercepting/messaging signals from the ECU to the injector and or ignition.
Dyno tuning is more than just max HP/TQ. It is also working all areas of the fuel map so the driveability is optimized. Dyno tuning is also about optimizing the ignition tables so you have maximum output with no detonation. Programming the ECU directly will allow adjustment of starting issues, decel popping, lowering warmup fuel, setting correct engine parameters, etc.etc.. There is no comparison, even on a stock bike with air box and mufflers only, of a properly tuned delphi ECU versus an addon system. There are a lot of dyno operators who can run a dyno but do not tune properly. If you have ever had a bike tuned correctly, by someone who knows how to tune, using a tuner that programs the ECU, it is like night and day compared to any canned download or any addon device that just globally adds fuel. This is even true on stock bikes as dealer delivered. No way a canned download from anyone can be 100% accurate with variation in injectors and variation in fuel pumps. This is why dyno tuning is the most accurate for a specific bike and specific upgrades. I specifically did not mention ECU replacement devices as they have there limitations when compared to the Delphi ECU and a proper dyno tune. I have always wanted my bikes to be 100% optimized and not just close.
 
Eddfive, you are right. I've had 3 different dyno tunes at 2 different HD dealers and I don't think any of them knew how to get the most usable power out of my highly modified Road King. Or else they're constrained by working for a HD dealer and can't tune bikes for torque and horsepower when the EPA and CARB are looking down their throats. All 3 dyno runs were in California, maybe that's the problem. Or maybe I should've went to an independent tuner. I don't know, but I don't think I could do any worse doing it myself.
JJRJ
 
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