Mabye it's just me, but how many shovel's & evo's ever had compensator issues like the twin cams? My own 86 FXR is into the 90,000 mile zone & still running the factory original compensator. We all know of many shovel's with more miles than that still on the original compensator. This is one of those "If it aint broke, don't fix it" times for Harley. Harley should go back to what works.
New SE comp
- Thread starter jsvt184
- Start date
I'm not a Harley history expert by any means, and this is just a re-statement of what I have read.
Through the 88 ci engines, the original compensator was adequate to handle the loads put on it either by the engine or the starter. With the advent of the 96, the torque applied exceeded the design limits of the compensator. Depending on the luck of the draw, it was inadequate from the first start and made the infamous starter bang when engaging the starter and would eventually rattle when driving down the road. If you were lucky, the factory comp would run some distance before the standard symptoms would begin to show up. People would say the comp had been "beaten to death" as it ran out of travel and banged into the stops over and over again. My personal theory is that this also contributed to some of the crankshaft problems people were experiencing.
Now that the new compensators are accumulating some miles, there are design weaknesses in it also, but they are different from the previous design. The spring stack on the new comps is so stout, I can't imagine ever bottoming out the springs, even with a highly modified engine. Getting adequate lubrication into the moving parts in the hub seems to be a problem and the interacting parts have a tendency to fret. Besides the wear in the hub, the cam drives three spokes on the sprocket. The strength of the springs which make this comp able to handle all the power thrown at it press the cam faces against the spokes so forcefully that there is a tendency for lube to be squeezed out resulting in metal to metal contact and accelerated and uneven wear. Many owners are trying shade tree modifications in an attempt to improve the ability of lubricant to get where it is needed. I have heard nothing about the factory getting serious about any design changes. The thrust washer has been changed from a fiber material to a plastic piece, but I doubt this will address all of the issues.
Through the 88 ci engines, the original compensator was adequate to handle the loads put on it either by the engine or the starter. With the advent of the 96, the torque applied exceeded the design limits of the compensator. Depending on the luck of the draw, it was inadequate from the first start and made the infamous starter bang when engaging the starter and would eventually rattle when driving down the road. If you were lucky, the factory comp would run some distance before the standard symptoms would begin to show up. People would say the comp had been "beaten to death" as it ran out of travel and banged into the stops over and over again. My personal theory is that this also contributed to some of the crankshaft problems people were experiencing.
Now that the new compensators are accumulating some miles, there are design weaknesses in it also, but they are different from the previous design. The spring stack on the new comps is so stout, I can't imagine ever bottoming out the springs, even with a highly modified engine. Getting adequate lubrication into the moving parts in the hub seems to be a problem and the interacting parts have a tendency to fret. Besides the wear in the hub, the cam drives three spokes on the sprocket. The strength of the springs which make this comp able to handle all the power thrown at it press the cam faces against the spokes so forcefully that there is a tendency for lube to be squeezed out resulting in metal to metal contact and accelerated and uneven wear. Many owners are trying shade tree modifications in an attempt to improve the ability of lubricant to get where it is needed. I have heard nothing about the factory getting serious about any design changes. The thrust washer has been changed from a fiber material to a plastic piece, but I doubt this will address all of the issues.
I had the loud bang when the starter engaged from day 1. Didn't know what it was for about a year. Around 10,000 miles I began getting the "box of rocks" rattling noise out of the primary. A service writer gave the usual "they all do that" explanation as if it was no problem. He was telling the truth that they all do that, but I believed it was a problem. Changed to the SE compensator and the starter bang and box of rocks noises were gone. A few people claim they have never gotten any noises out of their standard compensators. They may have gotten the one in a thousand which works as well, or better than designed. Your mileage may vary.
If you get an occasional or frequent loud "crack" or bang when you push the starter button, it is most likely a weak compensator bottoming out. If you get a lot of rattling from the engine area which forces you to downshift a little sooner than you would like, it is likely a weak compensator making the noise. If you have neither of these symptoms, count your blessings and enjoy the ride.
If you get an occasional or frequent loud "crack" or bang when you push the starter button, it is most likely a weak compensator bottoming out. If you get a lot of rattling from the engine area which forces you to downshift a little sooner than you would like, it is likely a weak compensator making the noise. If you have neither of these symptoms, count your blessings and enjoy the ride.
franka
Active Member
BTSOM, thanks for the short an exact description of what bad/weak compensator symptoms are. We all deal with what we think are individual sounds are bikes generate and dealers telling us "that's a normal sound for all HD's, please pay your invoice at the cashiers window". We also deal with the marbles in a tin can and by experience I can tell all to install an IDS, see self help tips in this forum. However, after installing the IDS the rattles are gone but the valve train chatter and cold start knocking is still there. The problem and big questions is, is it the.................
1. Compensator
2. Oil Pump or spring not flowing properly
3. Lifters
4. Valves
5. Push Rods
6. etc. etc. etc.
Where do you start without spending hundreds of dollars at the dealer for diagnostics only???????
If you get an occasional or frequent loud "crack" or bang when you push the starter button, it is most likely a weak compensator bottoming out. If you get a lot of rattling from the engine area which forces you to downshift a little sooner than you would like, it is likely a weak compensator making the noise. If you have neither of these symptoms, count your blessings and enjoy the ride.
1. Compensator
2. Oil Pump or spring not flowing properly
3. Lifters
4. Valves
5. Push Rods
6. etc. etc. etc.
Where do you start without spending hundreds of dollars at the dealer for diagnostics only???????
If you get an occasional or frequent loud "crack" or bang when you push the starter button, it is most likely a weak compensator bottoming out. If you get a lot of rattling from the engine area which forces you to downshift a little sooner than you would like, it is likely a weak compensator making the noise. If you have neither of these symptoms, count your blessings and enjoy the ride.
R_W_B
Senior Member
I had read on an old (2 yr old) thread (another forum) where some guys were removing the clutch-primary-front sprocket as one assembly and then removing, cleaning the loctite off and retorquing the compensator nut.
What does this accomplish ? Does something that was torqued to 150 lbs come loose ?
What does this accomplish ? Does something that was torqued to 150 lbs come loose ?
What that accomplishes it to restore the locktite and re-torque the assembly properly. It may not have been done properly from the beginning with the compensator coming loose on bikes.
The original torque should be sufficient to keep things together but again if they are coming loose with the locktite on them, it's possible they weren't done right.
The original torque should be sufficient to keep things together but again if they are coming loose with the locktite on them, it's possible they weren't done right.
the draggin
Active Member
I don't know too much about the TC engines but I remember taking my old shovel compensater apart and redoing the disc spring pack but the bike had about 35,000 miles on it and was stoked to 86 CI. I never really noticed a problem after that. It seems the more we change the less we really need to.
R_W_B
Senior Member
I kinda got the same question ONLY with all the problems these guys are having with the SE comp I can't help but wonder why it's better than stock ? Is it the heavier springs ?