SeaRider04
Active Member
I'm still wandering how Hoople manually clean them under pressure.
Fuel Injection cleaner
- Thread starter bamacfa
- Start date
LiRider, I do use fuel additive periodically, Berryman' Chemtool, about 8oz to top off a full 4 gallon tank, within a week of changing out the oil and tranny/clutch/chain case. I meant only that it was pretty "sobering" to know that damage to modern day metrics being a possiblity due to the special coatings used and the jury is still out on the long term effects of fuel additives and crankcase "cleaners" .
The ring/cylinder wall in the V-Twin is one thing, but as far as in the case of the Sporty where the clutch/gears/chain all share lubrication, I have not tried ANYTHING, except "religiously" changing it at 3000 miles (along with the oil). Just want to be cautious about any cleaners or additives without long term testing being done...that is all. :s
Hoople
Account Removed
Since my story did catch the interest of several, I will go into much greater detail and give the reasons why I feel the way I do about this particular fuel injector cleaner. It's a long read but it will explain why I feel the way I do toward the fuel injector cleaner called Techron. Every word is 100% true. There is no hype or sugar coating in this read. I would not stack the deck to make the outcome what I wanted. I am not saying products like Staybil fuel stabilizer should not be used. I use Staybil without any worry. My story applies specifically to Techron fuel injector cleaner by Chevron. Yes, some of the problems I had were due to my own fault, but hear me out with my entire story and you may understand why I will Never use any fuel injector cleaner again in my vehicles.
It is true that conclusive results can NOT be made with only 1 sample. It is really not fair to make a judgement based on only my 1 sample. But I am not going to use it on another one of my engines just so I can give or make more average or accurate results. I hope you can understand that point.
The car was a New Acura Legend with a 6 cylinder engine. This engine had cast iron cylinder sleeves. Oil changes were every 2,500 miles along with a Genuine Acura (Honda) Hi capacity filter. With 7,500 miles on the clock, I switched over to Mobil 1 pure synthetic motor oil and continued with the 2,500 miles oil changes with filter. Meticulous maintenance to hoses, fluids, filters etc were performed. This car was my Baby. This engine was NEVER overheated. When the car approached the 45,000 mile mark, I started thinking about fuel injectors cleaners. I looked at all that were available on the shelves and selected Techron. I put a bottle in the car and the car simply ran GREAT. Everything about engine performance was better. I loved the feeling and I will be the 1st to tell you that I did abuse adding Techron to my gas. The label on the bottle said only to use it once per oil change and I wanted to know why. I wrote to Chevron and they in return sent me a 1/2" thick envelope of reports, tests, pictures, and explanations about Techron. They also said in a cover letter, the reasons why only to use it once an oil change. In spite of the warning, I continued to use 1 bottle every 4 tanks of gas. I know that was wrong but I thought I could make up for it by changing the oil every 2500 miles while using Mobile 1. So now the car has maybe 48,000 miles on the clock and I am using 1 bottle maybe every 1000 miles because I like the added kick I get from the engine. I am also thinking I can get by with that concentration because I am using Mobil 1 and changing it every 2500 miles.
I put an average of 12,000 miles on this car per year, most of which was Highway miles. Moving the hands of time forward, the odometer now has about 68,000 miles on it and I am feeling this slightly rough idle. It was not that bad but it continued to get worse and at 82,000 miles I decide to do something about it. Changed & checked several key parts but everything I changed, really did not improved the idle. I finally pulled the 6 injectors and pressure tested them at 35 PSI while pulsing them with a home made electronic circuit. If you shoot the injector mist onto a clean sheet of white paper, you can easily see the mist pattern the injector makes. (4) injectors were PERFECT. The pattern was a perfect circle with no heavy liquid spots anywhere within the mist circle. One injector still had a circle pattern but was very heavy on 1 side. The last injector had a terrible D shaped Pattern. At this point I figured Great, I found my problem. Using some carb/choke cleaners, I was able to restore the 2 poor pattern injects back into a nice pattern.
I installed the injectors back into the engine and it ran MUCH better but the idle still was not what I wanted it to be. Granted it was alot better, but I knew it still was not fixed 100%.
So now I am on a mission to find out what is going on with my engine. Rule #1 is to start from a sound foundation. Is the engine mechanically sound using a cylinder leakage tester? Using a Sun cylinder leakage tester I discovered my engine had a whooping 20% leakage almost flat out perfect across the board from cylinder to cylinder. 15% is really the upper limit on a "Good" engine. 10% is a great number anyone can live with. A brand new engine with low miles will usually be in the 3-5% range. The leakage was NOT coming from the valves. When you opened the "oil fill" spout you not only heard the rushing of air past the rings, but you could FEEL WIND on your hand over the opening. That's how much air was getting past the rings! The rings were no doubt shot.
Speaking and reading about other people who had identical cars, you would think these engines went to 200,000 miles and ran great. It was funny that this engine did not seem to burn any oil. It was like only the compression rings were shot. I never did tear the engine down to see or check the cylinder bores.
Ok, now to summarize: For a moment lets discount the fact that the rings were shot. Lets discount the many reasons how they could have gotten that way. My question is this. Using 1 bottle of injector cleaner every 4 tanks of gas, my injectors should have been PRISTINE CLEAN. Why were 2 still clogged.?? If the stuff can't keep the injectors clean in the concentration I was using it, how on earth can it ever keep your injectors clean when using it once every 5,000 miles.?
Then factor in the risk of ring damage,,, forget it. Why even bother.
I feel it is a colossal waste of money and an unnecessary risk. Sure if you had a V8 with 8 injectors, changing or cleaning the injectors very 60K is alot of money. But having 2 injectors on your HD... Just pull them, clean them or change them. I have not yet pulled my injectors from my HD engine but I would guess it is not a big deal. I know 2 new ones for my Dyna are $150 for the pair so to me, I would rather change them when I think it's time.
Look, I know my little soap box speech is not going to change a single mind. Guys love their cars, bikes and internal combustion engines. Your not going to change a guys mind when it comes to Brand of Tires, Wax, Oil or additives. That's just the way it is. Heck, no one will ever change the way I think about my brand of oil and car wax. So I do understand....
And SeaRider! Once I catch my breath I will tell you in detail about the pressure tester & procedure I used when cleaning my injectors.
It is true that conclusive results can NOT be made with only 1 sample. It is really not fair to make a judgement based on only my 1 sample. But I am not going to use it on another one of my engines just so I can give or make more average or accurate results. I hope you can understand that point.
The car was a New Acura Legend with a 6 cylinder engine. This engine had cast iron cylinder sleeves. Oil changes were every 2,500 miles along with a Genuine Acura (Honda) Hi capacity filter. With 7,500 miles on the clock, I switched over to Mobil 1 pure synthetic motor oil and continued with the 2,500 miles oil changes with filter. Meticulous maintenance to hoses, fluids, filters etc were performed. This car was my Baby. This engine was NEVER overheated. When the car approached the 45,000 mile mark, I started thinking about fuel injectors cleaners. I looked at all that were available on the shelves and selected Techron. I put a bottle in the car and the car simply ran GREAT. Everything about engine performance was better. I loved the feeling and I will be the 1st to tell you that I did abuse adding Techron to my gas. The label on the bottle said only to use it once per oil change and I wanted to know why. I wrote to Chevron and they in return sent me a 1/2" thick envelope of reports, tests, pictures, and explanations about Techron. They also said in a cover letter, the reasons why only to use it once an oil change. In spite of the warning, I continued to use 1 bottle every 4 tanks of gas. I know that was wrong but I thought I could make up for it by changing the oil every 2500 miles while using Mobile 1. So now the car has maybe 48,000 miles on the clock and I am using 1 bottle maybe every 1000 miles because I like the added kick I get from the engine. I am also thinking I can get by with that concentration because I am using Mobil 1 and changing it every 2500 miles.
I put an average of 12,000 miles on this car per year, most of which was Highway miles. Moving the hands of time forward, the odometer now has about 68,000 miles on it and I am feeling this slightly rough idle. It was not that bad but it continued to get worse and at 82,000 miles I decide to do something about it. Changed & checked several key parts but everything I changed, really did not improved the idle. I finally pulled the 6 injectors and pressure tested them at 35 PSI while pulsing them with a home made electronic circuit. If you shoot the injector mist onto a clean sheet of white paper, you can easily see the mist pattern the injector makes. (4) injectors were PERFECT. The pattern was a perfect circle with no heavy liquid spots anywhere within the mist circle. One injector still had a circle pattern but was very heavy on 1 side. The last injector had a terrible D shaped Pattern. At this point I figured Great, I found my problem. Using some carb/choke cleaners, I was able to restore the 2 poor pattern injects back into a nice pattern.
I installed the injectors back into the engine and it ran MUCH better but the idle still was not what I wanted it to be. Granted it was alot better, but I knew it still was not fixed 100%.
So now I am on a mission to find out what is going on with my engine. Rule #1 is to start from a sound foundation. Is the engine mechanically sound using a cylinder leakage tester? Using a Sun cylinder leakage tester I discovered my engine had a whooping 20% leakage almost flat out perfect across the board from cylinder to cylinder. 15% is really the upper limit on a "Good" engine. 10% is a great number anyone can live with. A brand new engine with low miles will usually be in the 3-5% range. The leakage was NOT coming from the valves. When you opened the "oil fill" spout you not only heard the rushing of air past the rings, but you could FEEL WIND on your hand over the opening. That's how much air was getting past the rings! The rings were no doubt shot.
Speaking and reading about other people who had identical cars, you would think these engines went to 200,000 miles and ran great. It was funny that this engine did not seem to burn any oil. It was like only the compression rings were shot. I never did tear the engine down to see or check the cylinder bores.
Ok, now to summarize: For a moment lets discount the fact that the rings were shot. Lets discount the many reasons how they could have gotten that way. My question is this. Using 1 bottle of injector cleaner every 4 tanks of gas, my injectors should have been PRISTINE CLEAN. Why were 2 still clogged.?? If the stuff can't keep the injectors clean in the concentration I was using it, how on earth can it ever keep your injectors clean when using it once every 5,000 miles.?
Then factor in the risk of ring damage,,, forget it. Why even bother.
I feel it is a colossal waste of money and an unnecessary risk. Sure if you had a V8 with 8 injectors, changing or cleaning the injectors very 60K is alot of money. But having 2 injectors on your HD... Just pull them, clean them or change them. I have not yet pulled my injectors from my HD engine but I would guess it is not a big deal. I know 2 new ones for my Dyna are $150 for the pair so to me, I would rather change them when I think it's time.
Look, I know my little soap box speech is not going to change a single mind. Guys love their cars, bikes and internal combustion engines. Your not going to change a guys mind when it comes to Brand of Tires, Wax, Oil or additives. That's just the way it is. Heck, no one will ever change the way I think about my brand of oil and car wax. So I do understand....
And SeaRider! Once I catch my breath I will tell you in detail about the pressure tester & procedure I used when cleaning my injectors.
Motopsycho
Member
I have heard od Sea Foam. How exactly are tou supposed to use it?
I am a big supporter of the use of Sea Foam.
globalwheels
Member
where do you buy sea foam and what form does it come in