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Bike dying, lean, Sturgis trip slipping away...

I'm not sure how the ECM is connected but i imagine it is with a connector with pins in it. i would take a look at the pins and make sure you are getting a good connection. it is possible one is loose and the heat cuases it to have a worse connection and lose connection when you hit a bump. You did say that the symptoms changed after they swaped it. Just a possibilty. :33:

Good luck!
 
Sound like a good plan?

Well, it's the plan I would take. Have no fear, your bike did not get damaged by running it without any O2 sensors. It's just that I don't see what it would really prove because you would be injecting other problems into the mix to some degree...

The more I read and re-read your thread it almost seems like the "hit bump and engine miss" problem only happens when the T-max is installed.

It's a shame you have to buy a new pair of narrow band O2 sensors just to restore the bike back to stock status for testing. But this time after using them, put them in a safe place!!:)

My approach would be to install the original factory ECM (I assume it is the original factory unit that came with the bike) & install the narrow band sensors. Perform a WOW test. I would expect to see at least a P0154 & P0134 coded logged to the ECM when it was used by the dealership without any O2 sensors hooked up. Record any DTC codes (just for the record) and clear the error log for all devices (TSM, Speedo, ECM) on the communication buss. Be sure you see the word "NONE" for each device. NoRsp (no response) for any device the firmware supports but is not present. You must see the word "NONE" for devices that can be seen by the speedo on the buss.

Install the low flow air cleaner. Ride the bike and note any & all performance issues. Assuming the original ECM is good (and at this point I feel it is good), my guess is the bike may have de-acceleration popping, but it should not have an ignition buck or acceleration drop out etc.
While you ride, keep an eye on the check engine light for indications that you have trapped a DTC. Especially under hard acceleration, take a peek for any indication of a check engine light.
Ride the bike over some bumps. See if the symptoms have changed vs the T-Max.

The "capture rate" for errors that these ECM's have is fairly slow. I don't believe the built in WOW tests are ran in "enhanced" mode so an error that happens has to last fairly long for the ECM to log it as an error. Therefore a self healing error that happens only for a couple of milliseconds (say for example the crank sensor pickup misses 1 small window flag in 100 revolutions) can and will be felt by the rider but it may be outside the "failure window" to be captured & logged as an error by the ECM. If you find a particular driving habit that shows a performance anomaly, repeat it several times to try and force a code to log.

You have to fix the "hard engine miss under acceleration" & "engine misses while riding over a bump" first. Under WOT, the fuel map goes open loop and you should have plenty of fuel to make a strong pull. It may be a bit lean but you should not experience any bucking,,hard electrical engine misfire or exhaust "backfiring". It may feel like the engine is running out of steam (lean condition) but it should still be a "smooth weak pull". De-acceleration popping, plug readings, weak engine strength are all secondary right now. The problem you have with "riding over a bump & the engine misses" must be fixed 1st.

See how much information you can collect.

BTW,,I am not good with features vs bike models. Is your ignition switch mounted on top of your gas tank or is it at the steering neck like on my FXDL. Also are you working with a factory manual & schematics for a 2007 FXDB.
 
Ignition switch is in the neck...could it be loose maybe?

Working with the factory service manual for the 2007 Dyna (FXDB included).

Will try the above...going now to pull it from the dealership! More to follow.
 
Rescued bike from dealer. Another 2 hours labor charged but he said the tech spent 12 hours. Ugh, another $178 gone on top of the other $178 I paid for 2 hours of diagnosis a few days ago when they first said they fixed it.

Got it home, put in stock ECM. Rode fat, loss of some performance, but no issues with bumps or angles!

Bought and put in stock O2 sensors. Rides good. Still not as good as TMAX when it was running great.

So here is what I think happened, not necessarily in order...

TMAX ECM pin or pins went loose or damaged somehow causing the issue with bumps and angles. The other issue (couldn't keep it alive, backfiring sputtering all over) was immediately fixed when the CPK was replaced...AGAIN. That's 2 CPKs going bad in 3 weeks.

Can a bad ECM (the TMAX) cause a CPK to go bad?

I'm set up stock, but with full 2-2 bub pipes and a 2.25" RSD A/C...so should be running a bit lean. But I'm at 6800 feet altitude also so maybe it almost evens out. Throttle response is worse than TMAX, but hey...gotta hit the road.

I'll be talking to the TMAX guys soon to send it back and have then diagnose it. I'm right over 3 years with it, so maybe they'll replace, or I'll have to buy a refurb for cheaper than new with my core trade-in. All of that later...the road calls!

Needless to say...this is my NEW forum! Thanks everyone!!!
 
Rescued bike from dealer. Another 2 hours labor charged but he said the tech spent 12 hours. Ugh, another $178 gone on top of the other $178 I paid for 2 hours of diagnosis a few days ago when they first said they fixed it.

They should have given you some kind of credit for the first trip being they said they fixed it and it was no better. JMHO.

Glad you're up and running again.
 
Can a bad ECM (the TMAX) cause a CPK to go bad?

I seriously doubt the crank sensors are bad. I would bet it is more of a T-max pickup sensitivity issue than anything.

All things considered, you got off lite. At least you didn't wind up ripping out the bikes wiring harness looking for a Ghost.
 
UPDATE:

Returned from Sturgis last night.

Ride up there went great, flawless.

Around Monday (2 days after getting there) the bike started popping LOUD like a pistol going off through the exhaust whenever I hit a dip in the road, at the downward most section of the dip. Then it got worse over the next 2 days. Popped whenever I hit noticeable seams in the road. Everytime it popped I'd lose all engine power for a split second. Here was something new...sometimes it would actually begin surging after the pop...like I'm giving it gas lurching forward and letting up every 1 sec or so. It would continue like that 3 or 4 times and then not again. But it wouldn't die with the dips in the road, just loss of all power for a split second, pop, then power is back.

I decided to experiment. I could get it to pop and lose power by standing on the pegs while riding and jumping up and down slightly....at the lowest travel of the suspension is where it does it...everytime. Then I also noticed when I apply moderate rear brake it kills power immediately. Doesn't do it with front brake application or standing still while applying rear brake pedal either.

One last thing...when I saw a dip in the road ahead I went WOT over it. Engine lost all power (dead) as long as I kept the throttle on. Here's the weird part...I gradually backed the throttle down and right around 10% it will kick the motor back on! I tried it again and it's repeatable. If I hold the clutch in after it happens and just stay at WOT and coast to a stop it just remains dead. It's probably bump starting it back to life....but something allows it to do it only at that throttle percentage or below (could have been 20% or under, who knows).

NEVER at any time do I lose indicators/lamps or speedo funtion, not even a blip or hint of it.

Finally it died on me after a really rough road...threw a CPK sensor code (P0373)...that would be the 3rd CPK sensor gone bad in 3 weeks! I cleared it and it came back 3 times over a day.

A day later on another rough road it died and the engine light actually came on for a few seconds! That's a first. It gave a unique code I haven't seen before in all of this. P0108... MAP sensor high? I wiggled some wiring by the map sensor (if it's that flat connector behind the air cleaner) and bam, it rode great without a hicup for 60 miles. Rear brake didn't kill the engine at all. Then it started all over again and started giving me the same issues, and rear brake again started to kill the engine power.

Thoughts? Bad MAP sensor? Why the bad CPK codes...the wiring from the CPK connector bad or from CPK to ECM? Dealer checked 5volts getting to MAP sensor but only at stand still. I doubt they wiggled it. $500 labor, never fixed the core issue. The TMAX is very sensitive to voltages and this issue, whatever it is, will cause it to go crazy...in fact I think it wasn't the TMAX at all, but that it was getting bad readings from a sensor (MAP? CPK?) and garbage in, garbage out?
 
Two things come to mind reading your post. First is about application of the rear brake causing the problem to occur at that time. By applying the rear brake you are in turn applying a torquing motion to the drive train as a unit and the wiring for the bike is strapped sown in many places. I would be looking for a problem with a loose connector or pin in a connector being out of place and not making a good contact. Like you said after moving the wire by the map sensor, it made a difference. Start in that area and run the bike and move and relocate all the wires in that area by wiggling them and see if you can replicate the stumble.

Another possibility is the TPS switch. If it has a bad winding, the information given back to the ECM would not be reliable and could cause the problem you describe with the throttle position. Check it with a DVOM and be assured there is a clean sweep repeatedly.
 
What a combination of strange problems.
I may be wrong but I am thinking a little different about what this could be. For me, this problem is pointing more & more toward a pinched wiring harness, pinched cable or connector issue like Glider mentioned.

I just can not believe the fall out in sensors is for real and is something we can believe in. We do know the problem is bump sensitive. A harness that is being pinched would explain some of it..

I would bet that the back firing when hitting a bump is coming from scattered spark timing caused by the crank sensor dropping out for a moment.
I probably would start with the crank sensor issue. I have this feeling the problem is a harness/wire/cable either touching ground or touching another wire,, metal rubbing on it etc, causing the spark timing to scatter for a moment.

Disconnect the battery, then disconnect the ECM connector right at the ECM. Place a Fluke meter across the two two pins that are the crank sensor. (In my case it would be pin 30 & pin 12).. Place a second Fluke meter between Pin 30 and Pin 28 (ground). Place a third Fluke meter between pin 12 and pin 28. Meter 1 will read the resistance of the sensor. The other two should read infinity with scales in 20 meg-ohm.
Now go to town on the bikes wiring harness. Shake, move, push, shove, hit, bang, in order to try and get a beep from any one of the meters.

I also agree with Glider about the TPS. Sweep the TPS right at the ECM connector while you poke around the cables with a wooden dowel. (and at the same time twisting the grip back and forth). It is a 3 wire sensor so you need to sweep the "wiper lead" with each remaining wire. (actually two tests for 1 sensor)

One other important note in case your not aware. The connector used at the ECM along with the wiring harness mate are called Packard 100 series connectors. The male pins and female sockets are very precision dimensions. The ECM is the male side and the wiring harness is the female side. In the course of trouble shooting this problem, be sure to Never insert a test pin greater than .040" in diameter into the female socket side. If you do, it will permanently damage the socket spring tension arms. You will then create a "forever" intermittent connection that will be very hard to find.
 
I'm quickly getting out of my current skill set, but eager to learn more.

What do you mean by "sweep" the TPS? Not familiar with that term.

Never seen or heard of a Fluke meter before. I have a craftsman multi-meter from Sears. I could go get a Fluke if they aren't expensive. I'll do some research on the Fluke meters now. Is there a reference anywhere for what pins numbers are what on the ECM?

I know the tech at HD inserted a pin tool into the ECM...he said later that it wasn't for that though...it was mean for the newer bikes ECM pin connector drag test but that the service manual for my bike didn't have a drag tester listed so it could be the wrong size...many pins were loose and not dragging on that "incorrect" tool he mentioned. Maybe you all know the size of that tool he was using? Less than .040" I hope?

I've got the A/C off now and can access the MAP plug. Should the the connector be able to swivel on its seal easily? The connector I'm referring to is the one you put the wires/plug into. It turns very easily.
 
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