oil change concerns

[Billbo]

Bilbo; From your discription in post #8, I think you removed your primary inspection cover(oval, in the middle of the primary) not the derby (big round at the back of primary). With the derby cover off, all you can see is the clutch pack, may need a flashlight to illuminate the oil level. I know you have a serv. manual, and the '01 may be different, but we usually get 38oz. out of the primary when changing. Where did you see 26 oz. called out? I use teflon tape, only because that's what I have on hand, don't put it past the end that sticks in the case. I don't have a Softail, so I'm gonna leave the plug tightning / distance alone.

Hey Breeze, no, I removed the big ~6" dia round clutch inspection cover plate - and NO I still can not see anything pertaining to the oil leves as shown in the book. Let me attempt to describe - with the cover plate removed, the cluth plates and rings etc (not sure what to call all the stuff inside) is only about 1/4" from touching the primary cover - and down inside about 1" or so below the opening, is the oil level per the pictures. At best, very difficult to see and judge the levels. I have a 2001 Heritage and actually, I have not removed the smaller rectangle looking window in the middle of the primary cover. I need to take it off in order to inspect the chain tensioner and free play.

Thanks for your response and help here, I should probably use some teflon tape or permatex liquid teflon on the plugs. I am still gonna replace all the o-rings.

Bill

Bilbo; From your discription in post #8, I think you removed your primary inspection cover(oval, in the middle of the primary) not the derby (big round at the back of primary). With the derby cover off, all you can see is the clutch pack, may need a flashlight to illuminate the oil level. I know you have a serv. manual, and the '01 may be different, but we usually get 38oz. out of the primary when changing. Where did you see 26 oz. called out? I use teflon tape, only because that's what I have on hand, don't put it past the end that sticks in the case. I don't have a Softail, so I'm gonna leave the plug tightning / distance alone.

Breeze, also, my owners manual and service manual for the 2001 indicate :
Primary capacity - 26 ounces
Engine capacity - 3.5 qts
Transmission capacity - 24 ounces

I know the dealer put in a full qt in the primary - it's supposed to have 26 ozs. and some here have said too much may make shifting harder and finding neutral more difficult.???
thanks again,
Bill

 

[BUBBIE]

ON MY 2000 DYNA and others of same design

NOTE WHERE (how far IN visually) THE DRAIN PLUG WAS (IS)
YOU WILL PUT BACK IN ABOUT THE SAME POSITION(don't get carried away with the word TIGHT ....... replace it with word SNUG

I USED 26/28 OZ. LIKE THE BOOK CALLS FOR ..

I REMOVED THE DERBY COVER(big one) WITH BIKE STRAIGHT UP... after drained and PLUG RE INSTALLED PROPERLY

I ADDED 28 OZ(MTL primary lube) IN MY BIKE( took level right to the crinkled circle bottom around the clutch basket.... USE PRE MEASURED 28 oz and you will be fine....NOT THE FULL BOTTLE.... 32 minus 4 = 28
(also difficult to pour you'll need a small funnel or a piece of cardboard to direct oil past clutch primary lip) 28 oz without any on the floor!

the older bikes do take LESS than the newer bikes 99/00/01/02/etc took the LESSER amounts 26/28 oz.... stick with 28 oz....

when you RE insert the tapered magnetic plug......
GRIP THE ALLEN WRINCH FAR INTO YOUR HAND...
DON"T GET CARRIED AWAY WITH THE WORD TIGHT.....
REMEMBER THE POSITION IT CAME OUT AND PUT BACK ...

SLIGHTLY SNUGGING AND LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE...

the tapered plug can go into and out of sight if you KEEP TIGHTing so DON"T go further than it was where you took it out.. and only SNUG IT

EACH TIME YOU CHANGE OIL IT MAY TAKE A LITTLE MORE DEPTH TO SET THE PLUG.....

ONCE IT GOES FURTHER IN.... IT WILL NEVER SET AND SEAL ON THE OUTTER POSITION again.

MINE (everbody's) plug started OUT at about 1/8 in. outside of case and moved into the case to be FLUSH (snug tight) then I used a teflon tape to CAREFULLY wrap n seal at that FINAL location refraining to go deeper into the case.. most bikes may have a drop of oil at that location and not called a leak.... so **** LIVE WITH IT****

HARLEY finally on the newer bikes put a flat HEADED BOLT so the taper is a thing of the past.

WHEN using the FLAT hunk of paper seal under the DERBY cover... I have REUSED them ...

UNDAMAGED (LOOK) then WIPE ALL OIL OFF gasket and wipe all oil off the surrounding area (mating surfaces) I HAVE FOUND leaving oil on gasket and mating surfaces(inspection oval plate included) will tend to DRAW oil OUT n a leak is started...

USE THE BOOK TO SEE TIGHTENING PATTERN OF DERBY COVER

I tighten all to finger tight (using torx) then back off each until ALL ARE IN but evenly LOOSE ...... THEN very lightly snug then TORQUE using the PATTERN...TORQUE not OVER TIGHTEN........ and keep the torx tool straight and press tightly inward when removing or replacing the torx bolt ... once a torx head is damaged (either in or out bound) .... replace with a NEW ONE or it won't torque in properly nor come OUT next time.... and that is a real hassle to remove.

I always carried a FULL set of extra (HD) derby cover bolts so I could replace damaged or stripped heads... it usually HAPPENS...

I've owned SEVERAL early bikes and that is the way it is done IN MY BOOK........

signed....BUBBIE

 

[softailhog]

Bubbie is right about the tapered primary drain plug. If you tighten it too much it can actually be hit by the spinning primary chain. Mine has gotten
more loose over time/miles so I use a little Loctite. Even though it doesn't feel tight, mine has never backed out at all.:newsmile071:

 

[Billbo]

Thanks Bubbie and Softailhog for your input - and hope you had a nice Thanksgiving weekend.

I changed my primary oil and ran the plug back in about the same amt that it was originally. No leaks but it does have oil on the plug - I should have used some teflon tape or locite - I WILL next time for sure.
I checked at the HD shop and the new plugs are flat head with oring - too big for my bike tho so I am still using the tapered pipe plug - will just have to bow up on the thread sealant if it leaks.

Thanks

Bill

 

[glider]

Bill

I posted this in another thread for you. You may want to pick up a new plug too, it could be a bit tighter and not leak at all.

Primary Chain Case Servicing - Harley Davidson Community

 

[sandmar]

Nice report Bubbie. Thanks for the input from all who contributed their experience.

 

[Joyflyin]

I have been doing the service on our bikes for 2 years now, (thanks to this site,:s), my husband took his bike to a local indy for his 10k service last spring. What I discovered last weekend for my bike which I know has o rings replaced every time now because I do it, the o rings looked fine, but still got replaced. On his bike which he had done down the road, the o rings were chewed up pretty bad and there was the white tape on the threads. I know his o rings were replaced the time before it went to the shop because I did it.

This is why I change the o rings every time for sure now. I have pictures of the used o rings, I just got them loaded on the computer, so I will post them up here in the next day or so for you to compare.

After seeing the difference on replacing them every time or every other time, for the .60 or so that they run, I'll replace them. I do keep the old ones that still look okay in an envelope for the just in case, better than nothing occasions.

 

[MBHD93]

Just curious. when you removed the derby cover and were unable to see any oil, was the bike upright and level or on the kickstand? Should be level.

 

[KingHeritage]

Billbo,if your changing your own oil on a Softail,I highly recommend going to our self help section and read about scavenging your oil from the crankcase.It's line #59.You'll just need a couple of tools and a 2-3ft clear plastic hose.The procedure is very simple and is well worth the extra 10-15 mins it will take you

 

[RetiredJake]

Don't be surprised at what you find when you pull your drain plug, or look at anything else. While my bike was in for starter repairs under warranty, one of the techs changed the oil on my bike by mistake. I don't like the Syn3 they use, and it was within 100 miles of the oil change/service I was going to do anyway, so I changed the oil the next day. The 3 attached photos show what I found. The o-ring had not been changed, pipe dope was used to excess. This is the mark of a lazy tech, much easier to slap some pipe dope on it rather than clean the plug, pull the o-ring and slip a new one on.

Note the pipe dope partly covering the magnet

Sorry for the focus, but the white area way back inside is pipe dope

This o-ring is definately older than 2 days