Cam Chain Tensioner

[BUBBIE]

Hey gents, when did they switch to the Torrington inner cam bearings? Or did they switch away from them? In any case, I'm coming rapidly upon my 20K mark on my '03 RK (late), and am strongly considering going to the hydro-adjusters. Just wondering if I need to plan/save for the inner cam bearings as well. If I don't need the bearings, I will likely do my own wrenching, but if I need the bearings, I don't trust my skills to be able to "press" the new ones in,and will have to go with a pro.

As long as I'm in there, I might go with a mild cam upgrade as well. I'll be completing a home-grown stage-1 very soon. I already have Hooker Tuned-Flow slip-ons, stock ECU download, and will get an SE intake and a TFI, as soon as I get my speedo/tach (on backorder from HD). I need the tach for tuning the TFI.

Thoughts?
Enjoy,
Rich P

I WOULD CHANGE THE BEARINGS ON THE MOTOR SIDE FOR THE CAMS....

If you KNOW the dh service shop well enough, YOU might be able to HAVE them just do the bearings in and out for you... I would ALSO use the FULL bearings...Torringtons

I hear the TOOLS run a couple of $$ and ? on LABOR vs: tools?

I made a tool that worked OKAY a long time ago and loaned it out... it is still on loan...???

I used 2 OVAL (modified) washers on a 5/16 bolt with a puller set-up that fit behind bearing OR could be fitted behind engine case for either IN and OUT of the bearings... worked good.. but the bot tool better and safer....

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INSTEAD OF A NEW THREAD I will ask a question BOTHERING ME

I noticed in my HD SCRM'N EAGLE parts book that the
REPLACEMENT KIT #25284 comes WITHOUT the BACK Cam Chain.... also the support plate shows it NOT HAVING the BRASS BUSHINGS for cams.

DO NEW STYLE CAMS USE THE BUSHINGS INSTEAD OF ROLLER BEARINGS on the CAM PLATE ????????

THE KIT REPLACEMENT cam plate shows(picture with out brass bushings) to use the bearings that press back into it used on the OLD STYLE CAMS..
I would sure USE the OLD STYLE CHAIN AND CAMS,,, AS it DOES USE THE newer style hyd-tensioner that comes with kit.

I would JUST make sure the older style chain DOESN"T HAVE ANY SHARP EDGES ON IT!

THIS (if i'm correct) MEANS CAREFUL YOU SPECIFY WHICH STYLE chain and cam plate YOU ARE USING WHEN ORDERING NEW CAMS!!!! This could get a little MORE confusing..

I have looked in my BIG manual on my 09 and it doesn't show a picture nor does it say anything that I found to address my QUESTION....

IF THE NEWER BIKES AND CAMS USE THE BRASS BUSHINGS TYPE,,,, I would RATHER use the OLD CHAIN AND CAM SET-UP, THEN TO GO WITH THE ADDED EXPENSE of THE different(bushing style) support plate that they sell separate of the KIT for another 329.95$


kind of jumbled up but you get the point.

signed....BUBBIE

 

[TQuentin1]

Bubbie,

Yes, you are right. The new style SE cam kit requires use of the silent chain and the old sprockets on the inside of the support plate. The cams can be changed out, but if this is done, the old sprockets must be reused (pressed off the old cams and onto the new ones) or replacement sprockets must be used. Also, I am not sure if the kit comes with new bearing for the support plate, or it those must be purchased separately. Makes sense that they would be provided.

TQ

 

[fabrozor]

Hi guys,

I'm concerned with this tensioner pad replacement too.

I compare the two choice of :
1- only replacing the orange pads with new orange pads (damn, why didn't they replaced those orange with nylon ones?) . That's cheapper but all the orange little pieces will still migrate in the oil pump and you don't know if the new ones will live 14k or 30k, so it's only a cheap relative peace of mind solution.
2- replace the whole system with the 96ci one. That's much much more expensive but you get the top.

I'm still studdying those both solutions. I'm in contact with Herko who provides a kit which contains everything needed, even the tools.
After reading some tutorials on this forum and others, my fear is to have to "press" the bearings on cams or plate because i'm not equiped for this.

Herko answers my question with :

Kit is unassembled. But no pressing if the bearings is needed for the camplate.
Consult any 2007-2010 big twin service manual (chapter 3 for the genuine Harley manual) to see how easy this cam change will be.

That's where i need you guys.
Can you give me access to "2007-2010 big twin service manual (chapter 3 for the genuine Harley manual)" so i can check this ???

Thank you.
ps : private message accepted if needed.

It's ok, i got one. Thanx.

 

[TQuentin1]

If you are getting Herko's kit to up-grade to the roller chain configuration, you do NOT need to press any bearings into the cam support plate. However, if you are replacing the inner INA bearings with the Torrington bearings that come in the kit (highly recommend you do this), then do get the George's Garage tools Herko has for doing this. It make the job tons easier and virtually fool proof.

TQ

 

[BUBBIE]

If you are getting Herko's kit to up-grade to the roller chain configuration, you do NOT need to press any bearings into the cam support plate. However, if you are replacing the inner INA bearings with the Torrington bearings that come in the kit (highly recommend you do this), then do get the George's Garage tools Herko has for doing this. It make the job tons easier and virtually fool proof.

TQ

I FOUND OUT THE HARD WAY.....
LOOK AT INNER CAM BEARINGS WHEN REMOVED AND COUNT THE ROLLERS..... MAKING SURE THAT THEY ARE ALL THERE..... HARDER TO FIND LATER...... BETTER NOW THAN CLICKITDCLICK,,CRUNCH


I had umbrella problems on my 97 dyna... right from the start it used oil NOT enough for hd to tear into BUT i tore it down and found they had NOT been installed correctly OR came LOOSE... SEEMS there were better ones available to RE INSTALL.

signed bubbie

 

[fabrozor]

indeed Herko's kit is something i would get but ... main kit + options kit are $1120 together.
At this i have to add the shipping from U.S. to france in "Heavy-Metal" price
At this i have to add the border Taxes (30%)
Well,
That's not a cheap upgrade, and i'm desperatly searching with my hands in my jean's pockets.

Why is there not someone who provided some stock tensionner with nylon pads !!!?????

 

[TQuentin1]

indeed Herko's kit is something i would get but ... main kit + options kit are $1120 together.
At this i have to add the shipping from U.S. to france in "Heavy-Metal" price
At this i have to add the border Taxes (30%)
Well,
That's not a cheap upgrade, and i'm desperatly searching with my hands in my jean's pockets.

Why is there not someone who provided some stock tensionner with nylon pads !!!?????

I am not sure that would entirely solve the problem. The new configuration has hydaulic tensioner actuators rather than spring-loaded ones. The combination of the shoe material AND the hydraulic actuators (plus the roller chains!) seems to have solved the heavy wear issue that plagued some of the spring-loaded tensioner systems. I do not believe that nylon shoes only in the spring-loaded systems would be sufficient.

If you are worried about cost, the SE up-grade is a cheaper option. This system reuses the inner silent chain, cam sprockets and if you choose, cams. It does add the plate, oil pump, and hydraulic tensioners inside and out. This is a lot less costly but to me a less desireable solution to the spring-loaded tensioner problem. But if the cost of the Herko option (cheaper than buying the parts separately) is prohibitive, it might be a good choice for you.

TQ

TQ

 

[fabrozor]

Thanks for the advice. I feel confident with the Herko kit, but just to have an idea, how much is the difference between SE and Herko kit ?

+ a question :
In the kit there's a +/- $36 George's Garage tool to lock the stock cam sprockets, but there is no tool to lock the New cam sprockets.

Do you guys have a tips to lock sprockets without thoses tools ???

 

[TQuentin1]

The Herko basic kit (no cams or options) was under $450 when I got it back in Feb or Mar of '08. Have to call for what it is now. But then you need to buy cams.

The SE kit is around that too, but you will not HAVE to buy cams to use this kit.

Actually, here is the tool for the new style sprockets (roller chain):

06-Up T/Cam Engine

p/n: 320620

TQ

 

[fabrozor]

I guess if you take the SE you'll have to buy parts and options to complete it anyway, and that will reach the amount of the Herko + options (i didn't checked).

But my question about the cam gear locking tool was, is it a way to avoid buying the both tools and proceed without it to lock the gear ?