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I would be careful. ATF has very little, if any, climbing ability like a 30 grade oil does. Since the oil level is only to the bottom of the clutch basket it relies on climbing ability to lube all vital components.
 
Would you be able to substantiate any benefits with documentation concerning the the benefits of the ATF in the primary? I've heard a few tout the benefits but never seen any positive documentation other then "it works for me" type of comment. Certainly the engineers can make a mistake but I'm quite sure they know just a tad more than the average Joe that feels because an automatic trans in a car (which has a pump to pump the fluid under pressure) that the same fluid is OK for a primary chain case of a Harley.

Can you do the same for the reverse? I can use an example like Viagra, It was originally designed to lower blood pressure and treat angina. It was by mere accident that the ED benefits came into play. Same with the transistor. I can also say that research by private companies (certain aftermarket HD clutch makers) has indicated that ATF would allow their clutches to work better, so they recommend ATF. Do you not think they considered the other parts in the primary? after all, if ATF killed everything else in the primary, wouldn't be much good to use brand X clutches, now would it?

One question I always ask and never get an answer to is why wouldn't you use fork oil in a transmission of the Harleys or why not use transmission oil in the engine?
I am sure if you do your own research, you will find that some people HAVE tried just such things, and have not found them to work. I also do not see people on this forum recommending these products for your exampled uses, either, as sometimes it does not take an engineer to find out that something works, or does not work.

Speaking of ATF in a standard gear box, In 1975, I made the mistake of buying a Dodge van which unknown to me ran ATF in the standard box. Well , long story short, 3 transmissions later, I sold that poor excuse for a van. Some things just shouldn't be.
And there are examples of such vehicles running fine many miles later. but remember, it was an engineer that made that decision that your particular tranny use ATF. I will take the chance ( since I do not know you or what you do for a living) that your not an engineer, yet you found better results by not using ATF in Dodge trannies. you found it worked better for you. Same here with ATF in primary. Sometimes, engineers just get it wrong, and common folk like you and I get it right.
 
One important fact about automatic transmissions that was not mentioned was clutch packs in auto transmissions are not designed to purposely slip like HD clutch packs. If the clutch packs in automatic transmissions were slipped like HD packs, the oil would be burnt in no time. The clutch packs and its oil on a bike will withstand hard slippage without burning up. In my opinion, the fact a HD clutch can do that is not by clutch design alone. It is a function of both clutch pack disc design and it's corresponding oil. I don't feel ATF fluid was designed to be used in clutch packs designed for excessive slippage.

But PropFlux, I do admire your open mind to try/experiment with new ideas and improvements.
 
Been following this post since the start and although im no real oil expert i always thought that atf was a hydraulic oil and have used atf to the correct dexron spec as a fork and shock absorber oil and would think that as its a hydraulic oil it would be the ideal oil to use in a fluid coupling or torque convertor which ever the automatic transmission is fitted with and would think that atf was formulated for this purpous with the ofshoot of also being suitable for shock absorbers and power steering
chain primary drives with oil wetted clutches have been around a long time primarily using mineral oil for lube and stiction

Brian
 
(certain aftermarket HD clutch makers) has indicated that ATF would allow their clutches to work better, so they recommend ATF.


They (Barnett) make no mention or guarantee that the ATF will NOT have an effect other parts either. Let's not forget the epoxies in the stator, do you know that ATF will not effect them, not to mention the other parts of the stator ?
Their main concern is their clutch packs performance and nothing more.

You can reverse everything said here but you cannot show one shred of evidence that ATF is recommended for use in the primary by anyone other than a clutch manufacturer or you would. On the other hand I could post descriptions of the oils RECOMMENDED for use in the primary that would prove their worth but you would only turn that around and compare it to bayer aspirin or the equivalent trying to prove your point.

You are among the very small minority that like to use a product that was not intended for the application and then try to justify it. Your bike, your choice, I'll stick with the products made for the applications and KNOW they are doing the job they were intended to do properly.

I am sure if you do your own research, you will find that some people HAVE tried just such things, and have not found them to work. I also do not see people on this forum recommending these products for your exampled uses, either, as sometimes it does not take an engineer to find out that something works, or does not work.
I can't imagine why.... How about they weren't made for the application?

It really isn't worth the time to research people that have done such things. I use the proper fluids in the proper applications.



I can't see carrying on this foolish debate about this topic any longer. Use your ATF and enjoy!
 
How about throwing lighter fluid into the fire...ATF comes in different "flavors" Dextron, Type F, Honda, and others which were for the type of clutch materials used and weren't "cross compatible". Just don't see a rider/user having done as much research as HD regarding what is "just right" for their application. There is also compatibility issues with glycol based, verses mineral oil based, verses synthetic "brews"...why risk it with only failure the determining factor...sounds like silly economics, based on too few facts...JMO
 
yes, ford does/did put atf in the trans and i changed it for 75w90 gl5. gm also used it in their front axles and transfer cases in the 80's. changed that out as well. works fine in auto trans. i'll stay with the forum's recommendations for my bike.
 
...ATF comes in different "flavors" Dextron, Type F, Honda, and others which were for the type of clutch materials used and weren't "cross compatible".

Your not kidding about compatibility issues. I went down a crash and burn road once with Dextron and Genuine Honda fluid. The Honda manual even said at that time that Dextron was OK to use. No, it was not. Absolutely have to use their fluid.
That was an unbelievable time & money learning experience for me.
 
Don't feel bad Hoop, my 2003 Honda CRV has that conflicting data as well, says it is "okay" to use, but further down it says continued use will affect shifting...then next sentence they list flushing instructions require 3 drain and refill operations to clean system out completely, 1st change at 60,000 miles, subsequent every 30,000...hooo boy, how dat?!!! :newsmile036:
 
Went to the dealer today and was talking with a service writer about changing the primary to Formula+ oil and get rid of the Syn3. Boy what a bunch of static he said he wouldn't do that and stay with the Syn3 in all three holes. Why are these guys so dead set against change? Well tomorrow morning Mobile 1 v-twin goes in the motor, mobil 1 75w90 in the trans, and Formmula + in the primary.
Thanks for all the input.
 
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