ThunderMax Questions

[billnapabill]

I installed my Thundermax tuner on my 09 CVO Roadglide a couple of weeks ago. The guys at Thundermax shipped the tuner with a map for my bike, great people to deal with and at first flush it looked like no big deal to install it. Once that's done I thought it would "Tune" itself, all I had ta do was ride the bike and it would learn and tune.
Well that ain't excaly the way it works. The bike popped on decel badly and backfired on me a few times when slow rolling in a parking lot. I read the directions, adjusted the basic settings and it seems to be fine now.
I still have a few questions though.........first, what happened to my reseve fuel gauge? I had a gauge that told he how many miles I had left on my tank and it's gone! Second, the bike seems to miss a little and surge when the RPM is around 2,000 rpms, will this go away as the moduel learns? Third, the bike also seems to pop once in a while if you rack the throttle a little when shifting or down shifting, maybe I shouldn't be doing that, it's an old habit. Lastly there seems to be a little lag on throttle responce at times, not to say the bike don't respond, it respons well, but sometimes when your shifting easy it feels like there's a little lag there.
Any help would be appreciated. I'll be the first to admit, I ain't no computer wiz and all the stuff about filing, saving was confusing to me. There's a darn good chance I did or didn't do something I was suppose to do but I figured you guys know a lot more bout this thing than I do.

 

[Steel Billet]

I had my Thundermax installed a few weeks ago at a HOG rally. It was done at a Dyno by a guy named Chris with Cycle Solutions Racing. Mine has ran flawless after the install. He ran it on the dyno through all the gears and it was ready to go. I also had Rinehart True duals and Ness big sucker put on. The HP improvement was from 51 to 73. The throttle response is right on...better than stock. There is no decel popping at all. My reserve fuel gage is still working. He told me to let it warm and let the idle settle down before taking off for a ride. Also let the idle settle for about 20 seconds after the ride before turning off the bike. Maybe the racking of the throttle while shifting is mixing it up somewhat I don't really know. I cant help with the install since I had mine done. But man what a difference in my SG and money well spent.

 

[eleft36]

Did you "initialize" and run the "auto IAC" function as per the instructions?

Al

:USA
:CONNECTICUT

 

[billnapabill]

Did you "initialize" and run the "auto IAC" function as per the instructions?

Al

:USA
:CONNECTICUT

Yep...did all that, I'm finding out there's more to this than a "Plug and Play" it's more like "trial and error". I had to go into the "Basic settings" several times and adjust things.
On the decel pop, you need to note the rpm where the popping starts and stops and adjust the fuel cut off accordinly.
For the backfire through the intake on throttling off of idle you have to adjust the milli seconds on the accelerator pump setting.
For the surging and slow throttle responce you need to adjust the wetness of the intake in front of the throttle body blade.
At any rate you adjust the settings, try it and re-adjust until it runs right.
I'm gonna call Pete about the fuel gauge problem, when I get a chance. If downloading the new firmware means I'll lose my current settings, I'll probobly forgo it, I don't really miss it, never had it before..............

 

[Steel Billet]

Yep...did all that, I'm finding out there's more to this than a "Plug and Play" it's more like "trial and error". I had to go into the "Basic settings" several times and adjust things.
On the decel pop, you need to note the rpm where the popping starts and stops and adjust the fuel cut off accordinly.
For the backfire through the intake on throttling off of idle you have to adjust the milli seconds on the accelerator pump setting.
For the surging and slow throttle responce you need to adjust the wetness of the intake in front of the throttle body blade.
At any rate you adjust the settings, try it and re-adjust until it runs right.
I'm gonna call Pete about the fuel gauge problem, when I get a chance. If downloading the new firmware means I'll lose my current settings, I'll probobly forgo it, I don't really miss it, never had it before..............

Are you looking at some sort of trouble shooting page to make all these adjustments? I thought the purpose of the T-max was to self tune. Knock on wood mine is running good.
I would like to backup my current tune to my lap top but Im afraid to plug in the USB to the EFI for fear of over writing it. I wish I understood this better. Good luck!

 

[eleft36]

Is your bike stock?
What map came installed?
Did the power quit to the ECM at any time?
Is your Auto Tune plugged into the grey Data Link Connector?
Popping can be caused by air intake or exhaust leaks, the ECM adjustment/settings won't cure that.

Al

:USA
:CONNECTICUT

 

[billnapabill]

There is a really simple installation guide that came with the tuner.........then when ya go to the Zippers site there's the "TBW Full Tuning guide", it's 70-80 page book. It tells ya how to set your "Basic" settings up, how to set up records, how to send information to Tmax, all kinds of stuff. And no, it's not for trouble shooting, it's for tuning. Tmax sez that they have maps that'll work in 90% of the applications then there are some that'll need tinkering.
The unit came with a map for the 09 CVO Touring 110", V&H true Duals with Reinhart slip-ons, stock cam. My bike has a stock CVO 110" V&H true Duals with Fulsac 1.75" baffels in the stock SE Mufflers. The ECM has not had the power cut since installation. The Stock ECM has been removed and the ThunderMax is there with the gray data link connector properly installed and the new cables to the new wide band O2 sensors installed. The Exhaust and intake have been checked for leaks and re torqued since the Tuner was installed. The bike runs good, the decel popping is gone now (It's a fuel cut off setting on the Tmax Tuner that needed adjustment). The only thing I'm still messin around with is the intermittant backfire through the intake at low RPM (a setting in the "basic" section) and the surge at 2000-2200 rpm (might be related to the backfire). Point is the TMax Tuner is not quite a plug and play for everyone and is a lot more complex than I thought it was.

 

[Charlies Harley]

After hearing all your problems I feel pretty lucky, I installed the T Max auto tunner, it was slick, the decell popping was gone, high temp was gone and runs good. Once I selected the map and down loaded it, we were done

 

[eleft36]

There is a really simple installation guide that came with the tuner.........then when ya go to the Zippers site there's the "TBW Full Tuning guide", it's 70-80 page book. It tells ya how to set your "Basic" settings up, how to set up records, how to send information to Tmax, all kinds of stuff. And no, it's not for trouble shooting, it's for tuning. Tmax sez that they have maps that'll work in 90% of the applications then there are some that'll need tinkering.
The unit came with a map for the 09 CVO Touring 110", V&H true Duals with Reinhart slip-ons, stock cam. My bike has a stock CVO 110" V&H true Duals with Fulsac 1.75" baffels in the stock SE Mufflers. The ECM has not had the power cut since installation. The Stock ECM has been removed and the ThunderMax is there with the gray data link connector properly installed and the new cables to the new wide band O2 sensors installed. The Exhaust and intake have been checked for leaks and re torqued since the Tuner was installed. The bike runs good, the decel popping is gone now (It's a fuel cut off setting on the Tmax Tuner that needed adjustment). The only thing I'm still messin around with is the intermittant backfire through the intake at low RPM (a setting in the "basic" section) and the surge at 2000-2200 rpm (might be related to the backfire). Point is the TMax Tuner is not quite a plug and play for everyone and is a lot more complex than I thought it was.

How do you know this? "The ECM has not had the power cut since installation". A starter lockup is capable of dropping the voltage to near "0" in the rest of the system during a bad hot start.
Almost every wire on the bike starts or terminates through a plug in connection, these are not always 100%.

My bike configuration does not have an exact zippers map match, I tried several maps to get the smoothest results and then tweaked it many times to get satisfaction. I think that's the way the dyno people get results also.

I found every change was more successful by re-initializing and running the Auto IAC.
I feel my time was well spent.

Changes can be made in problem rpm areas with good results only if there are no mechanical problems.
Tmax doesn't claim to fix mechanical problems.

Al

:USA
:CONNECTICUT

 

[billnapabill]

How do you know this? "The ECM has not had the power cut since installation". A starter lockup is capable of dropping the voltage to near "0" in the rest of the system during a bad hot start.
Almost every wire on the bike starts or terminates through a plug in connection, these are not always 100%.

My bike configuration does not have an exact zippers map match, I tried several maps to get the smoothest results and then tweaked it many times to get satisfaction. I think that's the way the dyno people get results also.

I found every change was more successful by re-initializing and running the Auto IAC.
I feel my time was well spent.

Changes can be made in problem rpm areas with good results only if there are no mechanical problems.
Tmax doesn't claim to fix mechanical problems.

Al

:USA
:CONNECTICUT

So, like I said I'm still playn with the settings, it gets a little better with each tweak. Sounds like you had to do several "adjustments" too. By the way, there in nothing mechanically wrong with my bike, it ran fine before I installed the Tmax. My butt dyno tells me that it has more HP and Torque with the Tmax.
My only concern still holds, The Tmax Tuner with auto tune is not a "plug and play" unit, in every case, the inital installation is simple but for anyone buyn this unit they need to be aware that there a good chance that they will need to, through the process of trial and error, set it up to work on their particular bike. The Auto Tune feature optimizes and adjusts the fuel mixture, learns, sets points and re-adjust as needed. This a wonderful feature. But after you have installed the unit and downloaded your map, your are probobly going to need to do some more adjusting via the trial and error method. I'm not sure everyone who is thinking about installing the Tmax Tuner understands this, dosen't sound like Charlie or Steel Bullet knew that, I didn't know it when I bought it. Some people would have a problem with this. As for me, I might have had second thought's about buying this thing if I Knew that I would have to go through this process. I suppose it'll be worth it in the end, it's just a little painful to me having my $30K motorcycle do things that it shouldn't because I put a $1000 "self tuning" ECM on it. I'm not running down the Tmax. I'm just saying they should be a little clearer on what's involved with this unit.