If you were choosing HD Formula + or SPECTRO HEAVY DUTY PRIMARY CHAINCASE OIL in the Primary
- Thread starter Haywire
- Start date
It all depends on what you are looking for....cheap or good :s
Hoople
Account Removed
Both in some people opinions .. esp synth 3
Much talk about Syn 3 from the Harley dealers. Let's talk a bit about that oil and it's application
SYN3 is a group III synthetic oil.
Group III synthetics are called hydrocracked isodewaxed mineral oil. In english all that means is that it is dino oil that has been super refined to meet the specs of a low grade synthetic. Group III's do exibit some of the qualities of synthetic like more uniform molecules, higher shear resistance to name a few, but will not stand up to the higher temps in todays motors.
I have never used SYN3. It's produced by Citgo, a Valenzuela company who contracts to whatever oil company will make SYN3 and then slap a HD sticker on it.
Harley Davidson is in the business of making money, not oil.
With that said, the synthetics that are also being discussed here, Mobil 1, redline,Royal purple and a few others are group IV Synthetics and contain no mineral oil at all. They are typically PAO's (Polyalfaolifins) and are 100% man made. Therefore they contain no contaminates that are commonly found in petroleum base stocks. Their resistance to thermal breakdown is well recorded and one of the biggest benefits of a synthetic, and also your engine.
Synthetic oil does not burn like a petroleum oil therefore leaves no or little deposits on your internals, also a benefit to your engine. A synthetic oils lubricity is far superior to petroleum oil because of the uniform molecules, so you will have less wear and cooler running temps, usually in the 10*-15* range.
All good reasons to use synthetic oils. If you change your oil as recommended by petroleum oil companies, 2500-3000 miles you are changing the oil after its useful life has ended. That means at least for some period of time, your dino oil was not doing the job it once did when it was new. This is where the benefits of a synthetic come into play. In most cases the wear and tear being caused by spent dino oil will not be realized until you experience a mechanical breakdown. Your engine will run strong, sound fine, even with scored bearings....until they fail. If you can take documented science and apply it, knowing that a synthetic is causing less wear, cooler running conditions, cleaner running conditions and therefore longer engine life, there is no better reason to use a quality synthetic oil.
I also wanted to address the issue of the oil appearing "dirty" quickly. This can be caused by several things. Residual oil in the sump and oil galleries at the time of an oil change, excessive engine wear, blow-by that could be caused by worn or sticking rings, inferior film strength of the lubricating oil on the cylinder walls, dirty or inefficient air filtration. All good reasons to look at a quality synthetic oil to use in your bike.
Group I
Group I oils are the simplest, and usually will not be found in motorcycles.
Group II
Group II oils are refined by processes known as hydro cracking and isomerization. They have fewer impurities than Group I oils. These oils are the typical “dino” oils that are used in our bikes.
Group III
Group III oils are synthetic oils "so to speak". But they are not the type of synthetics that are built up from scratch but modified from dino base stock. They are actually crude oils from the ground that have been refined by a process known as hydroisomerization. HD Syn 3 falls into this category.
Basically it means a combination of processes that remove more unwanted impurities from the crude oil.
Notice above that group III oils are called "synthetic".
It took a lawsuit, and a firm of lawyers, and a bunch of law suits to decide that. The hydroisomerization process actually changes certain molecules around enough to create new molecules. These molecules are pretty uniform in size and shape, just like in “real” synthetic oil. These new molecules are more resistant to oxidation, so they’ll hold up better and last longer than before.
Group IV
Group IV oils are synthetic oils and are man made. These are one of the groups that most people think of when they talk about synthetic oil. The largest parts of these synthetic base stocks are known as “PAO”, for polyalphaolefin. This stuff starts with ethylene gas, a molecule with 2 carbon atoms, and builds up to a molecule with 10 carbon atoms. Then three of these 10 carbon molecules are combined to form the actual PAO. Each molecule is exactly like every other molecule. The molecules are long chains, are more stable, flow more readily, better resist heat induced breakdown, don’t thicken as much from high temperatures, better resist oxidation, and don’t “boil” off, than their dino oil base stock cousins.
Group V
Group V oils are ester-based synthetics. They made from diester, polyolestors, polyesters, and complex esters. They are extremely stable under high pressure, and resist heat, often to near 500º F. They are polar molecules, containing an electrical charge that causes them to bond to metal surfaces. These oils are very expensive, and seldom encountered in our motorcycle world because of the price.
SYN3 is a group III synthetic oil.
Group III synthetics are called hydrocracked isodewaxed mineral oil. In english all that means is that it is dino oil that has been super refined to meet the specs of a low grade synthetic. Group III's do exibit some of the qualities of synthetic like more uniform molecules, higher shear resistance to name a few, but will not stand up to the higher temps in todays motors.
I have never used SYN3. It's produced by Citgo, a Valenzuela company who contracts to whatever oil company will make SYN3 and then slap a HD sticker on it.
Harley Davidson is in the business of making money, not oil.
With that said, the synthetics that are also being discussed here, Mobil 1, redline,Royal purple and a few others are group IV Synthetics and contain no mineral oil at all. They are typically PAO's (Polyalfaolifins) and are 100% man made. Therefore they contain no contaminates that are commonly found in petroleum base stocks. Their resistance to thermal breakdown is well recorded and one of the biggest benefits of a synthetic, and also your engine.
Synthetic oil does not burn like a petroleum oil therefore leaves no or little deposits on your internals, also a benefit to your engine. A synthetic oils lubricity is far superior to petroleum oil because of the uniform molecules, so you will have less wear and cooler running temps, usually in the 10*-15* range.
All good reasons to use synthetic oils. If you change your oil as recommended by petroleum oil companies, 2500-3000 miles you are changing the oil after its useful life has ended. That means at least for some period of time, your dino oil was not doing the job it once did when it was new. This is where the benefits of a synthetic come into play. In most cases the wear and tear being caused by spent dino oil will not be realized until you experience a mechanical breakdown. Your engine will run strong, sound fine, even with scored bearings....until they fail. If you can take documented science and apply it, knowing that a synthetic is causing less wear, cooler running conditions, cleaner running conditions and therefore longer engine life, there is no better reason to use a quality synthetic oil.
I also wanted to address the issue of the oil appearing "dirty" quickly. This can be caused by several things. Residual oil in the sump and oil galleries at the time of an oil change, excessive engine wear, blow-by that could be caused by worn or sticking rings, inferior film strength of the lubricating oil on the cylinder walls, dirty or inefficient air filtration. All good reasons to look at a quality synthetic oil to use in your bike.
Group I
Group I oils are the simplest, and usually will not be found in motorcycles.
Group II
Group II oils are refined by processes known as hydro cracking and isomerization. They have fewer impurities than Group I oils. These oils are the typical “dino” oils that are used in our bikes.
Group III
Group III oils are synthetic oils "so to speak". But they are not the type of synthetics that are built up from scratch but modified from dino base stock. They are actually crude oils from the ground that have been refined by a process known as hydroisomerization. HD Syn 3 falls into this category.
Basically it means a combination of processes that remove more unwanted impurities from the crude oil.
Notice above that group III oils are called "synthetic".
It took a lawsuit, and a firm of lawyers, and a bunch of law suits to decide that. The hydroisomerization process actually changes certain molecules around enough to create new molecules. These molecules are pretty uniform in size and shape, just like in “real” synthetic oil. These new molecules are more resistant to oxidation, so they’ll hold up better and last longer than before.
Group IV
Group IV oils are synthetic oils and are man made. These are one of the groups that most people think of when they talk about synthetic oil. The largest parts of these synthetic base stocks are known as “PAO”, for polyalphaolefin. This stuff starts with ethylene gas, a molecule with 2 carbon atoms, and builds up to a molecule with 10 carbon atoms. Then three of these 10 carbon molecules are combined to form the actual PAO. Each molecule is exactly like every other molecule. The molecules are long chains, are more stable, flow more readily, better resist heat induced breakdown, don’t thicken as much from high temperatures, better resist oxidation, and don’t “boil” off, than their dino oil base stock cousins.
Group V
Group V oils are ester-based synthetics. They made from diester, polyolestors, polyesters, and complex esters. They are extremely stable under high pressure, and resist heat, often to near 500º F. They are polar molecules, containing an electrical charge that causes them to bond to metal surfaces. These oils are very expensive, and seldom encountered in our motorcycle world because of the price.