Dead odometer/speedo, no spark?

[ridermike]

I'm helping a buddy get his 2000 softail springer running. It's been sitting for a while with the normal neglect issues but the initial problem is the main issue. He says the bike was running fine and just quit. Trailered it home and found it has no spark to the plugs. He did a little checking himself and thought it was the crank sensor and replaced it so we know it's not that. I have it now, and thought I would pull any codes that might led us in the right direction but Nooo. The odometer is dead, and the speedo dosn't sweep or cycle the engine / pursuit lights although the backlight for the speedo will light. I guess my question is, does the ECM need feedback from the speedo/odometer to enable the engine to start? Is a replacement speedo needed or somthing else the problem? Speed sensor is clean, have power to ecm, and coil, just no fire trigger.

 

[joel]

I would follow the KISS program.
Check and clean all grounds, clean both battery cable ends and check all fuses, than move forward with checking connectors, May be 1 has worked loose or has some corrosion do to age.
I'm not much better for info but the speedo head may play a roll in lost communication with ECM
My scanner should be able to read codes but the cables are too short.

 

[Harley Cruiser]

I'm helping a buddy get his 2000 softail springer running. It's been sitting for a while with the normal neglect issues but the initial problem is the main issue. He says the bike was running fine and just quit. Trailered it home and found it has no spark to the plugs. He did a little checking himself and thought it was the crank sensor and replaced it so we know it's not that. I have it now, and thought I would pull any codes that might led us in the right direction but Nooo. The odometer is dead, and the speedo dosn't sweep or cycle the engine / pursuit lights although the backlight for the speedo will light. I guess my question is, does the ECM need feedback from the speedo/odometer to enable the engine to start? Is a replacement speedo needed or somthing else the problem? Speed sensor is clean, have power to ecm, and coil, just no fire trigger.

Does your horn work? Check the accessory fuse. The 2000 has a cam sensor and a crank sensor, don't ask me why. My 01 fat does not need the speedo to run. Check all your fuses on both sides with test light.

I'm helping a buddy get his 2000 softail springer running. It's been sitting for a while with the normal neglect issues but the initial problem is the main issue. He says the bike was running fine and just quit. Trailered it home and found it has no spark to the plugs. He did a little checking himself and thought it was the crank sensor and replaced it so we know it's not that. I have it now, and thought I would pull any codes that might led us in the right direction but Nooo. The odometer is dead, and the speedo dosn't sweep or cycle the engine / pursuit lights although the backlight for the speedo will light. I guess my question is, does the ECM need feedback from the speedo/odometer to enable the engine to start? Is a replacement speedo needed or somthing else the problem? Speed sensor is clean, have power to ecm, and coil, just no fire trigger.

Here is how I check to see if you are getting a ground signal to the coil from the ecm. Instructions are below the video. The test light has to be a led, not a standard light bulb. If you dont understand ask quesions.

I'm helping a buddy get his 2000 softail springer running. It's been sitting for a while with the normal neglect issues but the initial problem is the main issue. He says the bike was running fine and just quit. Trailered it home and found it has no spark to the plugs. He did a little checking himself and thought it was the crank sensor and replaced it so we know it's not that. I have it now, and thought I would pull any codes that might led us in the right direction but Nooo. The odometer is dead, and the speedo dosn't sweep or cycle the engine / pursuit lights although the backlight for the speedo will light. I guess my question is, does the ECM need feedback from the speedo/odometer to enable the engine to start? Is a replacement speedo needed or somthing else the problem? Speed sensor is clean, have power to ecm, and coil, just no fire trigger.

Do you know if it has security on the tsm, the emc needs a signal from the tssm, not sure if it will even crank without the signal.
Just running things by you.

 

[ridermike]

Here is how I check to see if you are getting a ground signal to the coil from the ecm. Instructions are below the video. The test light has to be a led, not a standard light bulb. If you dont understand ask quesions.

I have done all the above suggestions except the test light, I have a inline plug wire light that will show me the same thing if the coil is good, which it is. Still it just seems to me that if the ecm sends and receives info from the speedo/odometer and it's not working it will shut the system down out of confusion. I called my local dealer and asked if they could bench test the ecm or the speedo and they just laughed (about what I expected). Seems doable to me.

 

[Harley Cruiser]

I have done all the above suggestions except the test light, I have a inline plug wire light that will show me the same thing if the coil is good, which it is. Still it just seems to me that if the ecm sends and receives info from the speedo/odometer and it's not working it will shut the system down out of confusion. I called my local dealer and asked if they could bench test the ecm or the speedo and they just laughed (about what I expected). Seems doable to me.

I just unplugged my speedo, and it started right up. 01 fatboy. The only wire going to the speedo from the ecm is the check engine light. Like I said the tssm has a do not start wire to the emc, but do not think it will even crank.

I think there is a correlation between the speedometer not working and not starting. When you diagnose electrical it is just as important to see what else is not working as what is working. Check the #1 terminal on the speedo plug, with the key on it should be 12v. It's the orange and white wire.

 

[76_shovel]

I guess my question is, does the ECM need feedback from the speedo/odometer to enable the engine to start? Is a replacement speedo needed or somthing else the problem? Speed sensor is clean, have power to ecm, and coil, just no fire trigger.

The ecm does talk to the speedo / tach but they are NOT necessary for engine running.
The ecm talks to the speedo, tach, tsm/tssm via the serial data line, worst you will get is code saying they cannot talk to one another.
As has been said, your 2000 has a cam position sensor in the cam nose area, if that is not working you will not run.

The ecm controls the "Main Relay" and it is from the main relay that the coil and injectors and fuel pump get power.
(yellow / green stripe).

Do you hear the fuel pump prime up when you turn on the ign switch (as well as the stop/run in RUN)?
The fuel pump will run for abour 4 sec then stop. It is during the 4 sec that you will normally see the check engine light on and
it too goes out normally after 4sec.

If so, that portion of the system is working.

I called my local dealer and asked if they could bench test the ecm or the speedo and they just laughed (about what I expected). Seems doable to me.

It is doable, I do it.

 

[ridermike]

I think there is a correlation between the speedometer not working and not starting. When you diagnose electrical it is just as important to see what else is not working as what is working. Check the #1 terminal on the speedo plug, with the key on it should be 12v. It's the orange and white wire.

I have 12.6v to the #1 speedo wire and the backlite will come on but that is all. This is the 67033-00 speedo without security. Also I failed to mention it is a carburated bike. It cranks good, just no spark.

 

[76_shovel]

what I wrote before does not apply now as you have an ignition module not a ecm.
do you have +12ish at the coil with the ignition ON and the stop/run set to RUN?
The speedo has nothing to do with the ignition system, its a secondary issue at this point.

 

[ridermike]

The ecm does talk to the speedo / tach but they are NOT necessary for engine running.
The ecm talks to the speedo, tach, tsm/tssm via the serial data line, worst you will get is code saying they cannot talk to one another.
As has been said, your 2000 has a cam position sensor in the cam nose area, if that is not working you will not run.

The ecm controls the "Main Relay" and it is from the main relay that the coil and injectors and fuel pump get power.
(yellow / green stripe).

Do you hear the fuel pump prime up when you turn on the ign switch (as well as the stop/run in RUN)?
The fuel pump will run for abour 4 sec then stop. It is during the 4 sec that you will normally see the check engine light on and
it too goes out normally after 4sec.

If so, that portion of the system is working.

It's a carburated bike and I have 12v to the coil. The owner said he check the cam sensor. He said it had approx 5v ac. Does that sound correct? What would make the odometer screen blank?

 

[Harley Cruiser]

The ecm does talk to the speedo / tach but they are NOT necessary for engine running.
The ecm talks to the speedo, tach, tsm/tssm via the serial data line, worst you will get is code saying they cannot talk to one another.
As has been said, your 2000 has a cam position sensor in the cam nose area, if that is not working you will not run.

The ecm controls the "Main Relay" and it is from the main relay that the coil and injectors and fuel pump get power.
(yellow / green stripe).

Do you hear the fuel pump prime up when you turn on the ign switch (as well as the stop/run in RUN)?
The fuel pump will run for abour 4 sec then stop. It is during the 4 sec that you will normally see the check engine light on and
it too goes out normally after 4sec.

If so, that portion of the system is working.

Good point. Op has never said if its injected or carb. Carb does not have a system relay, only a start relay, and its wired differently. If its fi, try switching the relays and see what it does.
Edit, Oops sorry did not see the last post.